For all of you who have experienced the hardship of leaving Gracepoint (formerly Berkland) at any of it's elevent locations, you are not alone. You are not being a "bad Christian" by leaving that church. Many of us have left, or were kicked out, and are alive and well.
It's amazing how whenever I get together with the brothers or sisters who used to go to that church, we have so much to talk about and share. Recently I found out that one of the girls who were in my class was asked to leave the church upon graduation by the pastor's wife Kelly Kang. She basically told her, "Go experience the world and realize how much you need Jesus." I am appalled that someone who was entrusted to shepherd the sheep would mistreat her sheep this way.
Anyway, if you found my blog while wondering if Gracepoint church is a cult or not, please go ahead and read the many helpful blog posts. In my opinion, it's not technically a cult but it's doing a lot of damage to a lot of people. Yes, I also acknowledge that many people are getting to know Jesus through the church as well. Praise to God who draws all men to himself.
Thank you, John, for keeping this blog alive.
ReplyDeleteHi John,
ReplyDeleteWould there be a way to contact you personally? I ask this because I would like to hear more of your story of why you chose to leave.
If you read through this blog (posts and comments), you'll find emails of persons whom you can contact personally. Basically, the things on the blog are why I chose to leave. There is also another blog with stories. http://formerberklander.blogspot.com/
DeleteIf you want to ask a more specific question on here as a comment, I'm happy to answer.
Does anyone know what happened to makestraight and the Twisted Gracepoint website? I think I'm ready to share my story and reflections.
ReplyDeleteI do not. The only other blog I know is still up is http://formerberklander.blogspot.com/ and http://gracepointzombies.blogspot.com/
DeleteI believe it's called twisted gracepoint in a wordpress blog, but it's password protected due to hacking attempts.
DeleteI have been going to this church for a while and I can say the following. At first, people seem very open minded and welcoming. Once you are inside, however, they indoctrinate you with course101, force you to accept and view Christianity in one particular way. They ridicule you if you do not accept their beliefs or ways of thinking.
ReplyDeleteGirls and boys are separated, and what's more, the senior people are actually married to each other (but you won't notice this at all). Having a relationship outside the church is not recommended at all and should be kept away from the leaders.
Also, you will learn that those leaders are very superficial. They ask me questions about myself but you can easily recognize that they don't care at all. So why bother asking me the questions?
Beware not to reveal too much about your life. They will use that information to play tricks on you and try to make you look weak and how you should confess everything to them (not God). They are manipulators.
Stay away from this church. This is a cult.
Sad to hear that this church is continuing with their controlling ways. I was hoping that it was getting better over the past years.
Delete@John it has been getting better, at least in Berkeley. Based on what I can tell UC Davis is still stuck in its old ways and UCLA is the exact opposite. So it depends on your leader and church plant. Some of the deacons are aware of ludicrous practices (some deacons sadly are still continuing in the controlling ways though) and are actively trying to end it. Many of the underclassmen that I know that want to leave have been supported in finding a new church after talking to some of the more senior members. I also do know a lot of younger leaders primarily recent grad who are trying to minister better and doing whatever it takes to make sure they stay in their walk even if it means switching churches. Based on what I can tell not everyone is that clueless or oblivious to bad practices of Gracepoint, people just learn to cope and deal with it.
DeleteOh UC Davis. I am not surprised to hear that UC Davis is still stuck in its old ways. I know those leaders well. I pray that abusive practices will end and that there would be no need for this blog.
DeleteI agree 100%! Honesty and accountability are completely one-sided. Leaders are VERY pushy and demanding in making you confess your sins to them, yet they never speak about their own weaknesses. This means we have no way of keeping them accountable, while they can endlessly sling mud on us. Leaders are INCREDIBLY greedy for information. No matter how much I confessed to my leader, they were NEVER satisfied, and were always convinced that I was hiding more from them.
DeleteRemember the first Harry Potter movie? It's Dudley's birthday, and every inch of the living room is covered with his presents. But when Dudley's first and only reaction is to complain that he should have gotten even more. This is EXACTLY what my leader was doing! Relationally, the most precious gift you can give to someone is the willingness to be vulnerable and open about sensitive personal information. But my olive branch of trust was only ever awarded with vicious accusations and complaints that nothing I said/did was ever enough.
When I attended GP, I freely shared a lot with my leader. During some meetings, I had a lot to say. During others, I didn't have much to confess, since everything had already been said the previous week. This annoyed my leader tremendously. They constantly felt that I was (1) Not giving enough details, (2) Not giving the right kind of details, and (3) Only confessing my more trivial sins.
I was repeatedly accused of (and I quote),"being dishonest," "hiding information," "too arrogant to be vulnerable," and "unwilling to accept the truth about myself." But I was already telling the truth to the best I could! If I said anything else, I'd be fabricating information. When I explained to my leader that I had, in fact, already shared a LOT, they rolled their eyes and responded, "No, you only think you have."
On the occasions when I confessed a fairly serious sin, my leader would STILL complain, "That's it? Something like this is all you're gonna tell me?" Yet every single time I saw them for the next 3 weeks, they would keep bringing up that sin I committed, and remind me again and again of how bad it was. Can't have it both ways!
During another "confession session," I shared with my leader a conflict earlier that week which caused me to get annoyed with a friend. This is a friend whom I usually get along with very well. By the time I was sharing, the conflict had already been resolved.
I was absolutely eviscerated. My leader said that I was "very immature," "don't truly love or care about your friend," "have absolutely zero compassion," and that "this incident "completely reveals the state of your heart." They spent so much time berating me, I was nearly 20 minutes late to my job later in the day (and they KNEW that!).
First they say that what I just confessed "completely reveals the state of my heart." But in the next conversation, they are right back to accusing me of "being dishonest" and "hiding information." WTF?
There were also times when I told my leader about major sins that I had committed 2-5 years ago. They would accuse me of confessing past sins as an excuse to avoid confessing present sins. How can you complain that I'm not giving you enough information, when you're only interested in hearing things that happened within the last 1-2 weeks of my life? It's akin to only reading the last page of a book, and complaining that the plot doesn't make sense.
It's still a mystery to me why my leader so persistently accused me of dishonesty, no matter how much I told them. Are they really interested in the truth? Or are they only interested in hearing the truth as long as it's interesting and scandalous enough for them to absolutely trash me to death?
I left Gracepoint Berkeley in late 2014 after a year in Post College, which was much worse than while during college. I have never been more depressed and suicidal than in my 5 years at GP, constantly feeling accused, worthless and worn thin. I felt that I had lost all meaning in life after I left because I placed so much value at significance in being in that community and adhering to strict laws. Looking back a year later, I can say that this past year has been the most mentally healthy and emotionally stable I've been in a long time. Anything related to Christianity are still triggers for me and I still can't sit through a sermon without breaking down, but there has been progress. I'm learning to be freed from guilt and live based on my convictions rather fearing what my leaders think.
ReplyDeleteFrom "Recovering from Churches that Abuse" By Ron Enroth: "Remember that it is Jesus who is the author and finisher of your faith, not the church." I am more confident now than ever that God is faithful and will be with me no matter the depths I sink to of the distance I flee. That in fact, he has come to set captives free, imagine that!
I'm glad to hear you are recovering. Find a grace-filled church that accepts you for who you are, as God does. God delights in you!!
DeleteJust wanted to share part of my deconversion story. Last year I went on a mission trip where I was rebuked several times. One time I was immersed in a game of basketball. The pastor came up to me and was like "I have to talk to you". I didn't even know what I could have possibly done wrong. I honestly thought he was going to say that my undergarments were showing or my shorts were too short. It turns out that he had been calling my name a few times. I didn't hear. I apologized and started walking when he grabbed me by the arm and told me to look into his face and listen better. He looked like he was about to hit or slap me. And this was done in front of everyone else. My peers avoided me as I was walking back because whatever happened, I must have done wrong and the pastor must have been right. Lol true friendships don't exist in the church. That night we were asked to share and I was feeling pretty hurt, naked, confused, lost, discouraged so I didn't volunteer to speak. I kind of just wanted to go back to my room after a tiring day. After the meeting, I quickly got up to go when of course the pastor's wife pulled me aside and said it looked like something was on my mind (which she obviously knew because the pastor probably told her what I trouble maker I am) and it was distracting to other people (which I doubt was) and I shouldn't make that expression. What the hell? Lol. There were some other nasty rebukings on that trip to other people but like little blind sheep they are they brush it off and feel bad about themselves because they didn't listen. They don't think it's wrong because it's hard to see until you take a step back away from the church bubble.
ReplyDeleteI left not simply because of the mission trip. Mostly because the disgusting doings of the church were slowly being revealed to me. When I left, my peers wanted to "catch up" and get meals with me. Naively, I ate with them, one by one...they really don't give a rat's ass about you and see you as a conversion project all over again. They convince themselves to love me, probably because the leaders tell them to, and feel guilty when they don't.
I've been seeing a therapist (coincidentally an ex-Christian) for my depression. There were a few times that I wanted to go back even through all this because it was too hard to face the world again. But I'm slowly learning that life is about making adjustments and enjoying the little moments. There are times when everything in your life will turn upside down and in that moment you have to face it and be strong and not run away.
Sadly, that sounds typical. I'm so sorry that you have been abused like that. How horrible to be embarrassed, ashamed, and judged like that. I wish you the best on your recovery and pray for God to show his love and grace to you through others. God did not come to condemn us (John 3:17). Do not listen to Christians who claim to "love" you, but in reality are more interested in condemning you.
DeleteI'm no longer in GP. Won't say names for obvious reasons, but one of my peers left GP, then another peer was told to stay away from her because she is a bad influence. This happened to my other ex-GP friend who was lied to by her peers/leader for this same reason. Another ex-GPer was also kicked out of her own apartment. How pathetic and low to be honest. Gracepoint is full of liars.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone here left or know of anyone who left GP LA?
ReplyDeleteYeah I heard of a couple people leaving in UCLA. I heard the transitions of leaving were fine with the staff doing a good job of helping them. This was mainly with sisters not sure about the brothers.
DeleteDo you know of the circumstances that made them leave?
DeleteThe usual? Most people who leave the church is all for more or less the same reasons. I think one of the staff who empathized with my disagreements put it to me one time to me is more of a question of what you prioritize in your spiritual life. You will never find the perfect church, everyone's a sinner, but are you going to look beyond those things and help the church grow and in the process grow in your relationship with God?
DeleteAlso some times you need to go the right staff member to help you with it.
I'm sure USC's Chris Chan would be excellent guidance. UCLA's Esther Cheng Lee has helped a lot of people transition out of the church from Berkeley to UCLA and has maintained in good contact with them. I wouldn't doubt Tim Choi, Daniel So, and Albert Kim would be helpful too. I'm just throwing out names of people I personally trust and yes, I left the church immediately after I graduated but I still remain in contact with a lot of them.
I'd like to add another perspective (left relatively recently). I recommend trying to find a support system outside of Gracepoint to help you "transition" out. When I left, there were Gracepoint staff and peers, who at face value were trying to "help" me transition out. However, they were reporting on my whereabouts and spreading my struggles under the pretense of caring for me. When you make the decision to leave, you might not have people outside of Gracepoint that you can open up to. It may be easier to fall back to your old church buddies. But tell your parents, high school/childhood friends, church from home, guidance counselors, mentors, siblings-- reach out and people can help you. It gets easier once you are removed from that environment. Surround yourself with people who love you, and don't have a conflict of interest with you leaving and having to keep tabs on you.
DeleteThank you so much for this blog. For a very long while after I left this church, I suffered and thought something was wrong with me because of their tactics. They encouraged me to feel guilty and I also lost all of my friends as a result of leaving. It also triggered depression and anxiety, which I still get therapy for. But it makes me feel much better to know I'm not alone and that there was something wrong with that place.
ReplyDeleteI experienced the same thing! This blog has been really validating because even years after I left, I would wonder if I was really just crazy or rotten, and there was nothing wrong in reality.
DeleteHello! I am a current student at UC Davis and I attend Gracepoint Koinonia. Ive had a good experience at this fellowship and have experienced my relationship with God growing despite only being here for a while. However, there is something that has bothered me that I saw at least one other blogger write about. They said that there are no "real friendships" that form in this church. This worries me because it is kind of what I have experienced. Already one of my leaders left to go to another college church and I was placed with a different leader. Also, I do not feel like I connect with my peer class at all and our interactions (although pleasant and respectful) are somewhat shallow and only go deep when we are around staff members. Everyone is friendly and I havent experienced any "shaming" or "spiritual abuse" that y'all write about but this is the one thing that concerns me. Is this what y'all are talking about?
ReplyDeleteHi, I had gone to Gracepoint at UCD years ago, and had stayed for a couple years. My personal experience, which may or may not reflect yours, was that for the first few months to a year, I felt welcomed and that I was growing in my faith. However, I did notice over time that relationships felt shallow in the sense that we were "sisters" more because we all belonged to GP rather than due to any significant bond. While personal things were shared, they were generally only shared within the confines of a structured church group setting. Friendliness was the norm, but deep relational connection was not. Once I had left, I instantly lost contact with all but one, who was a little more "against the grain" as I was. It wasn't until a good while into attending GP that I started to experience more of the shame and abuse. There was a usually unspoken level of judgment if I didn't attend prayer meetings or retreats. I was told that I should not go to my internship meeting over the retreat because I should put God first. I was also told that I should not go home for the summer, because we are expected to make enemies of our mother, brother, father, sister. There were other things that happened that gradually crept in the longer that I stayed, but by then, I had already bought into their way of being. I don't want to say that you shouldn't go, but be careful. Even up to the point that I left, people still acted generally friendly, and probably genuinely thought that they were only doing what was good and helpful for me, even if it unwittingly led me to think I was worthless and feel suicidal. I don't think they are "bad people," but I do think that what resulted from it was harmful. It's taken me years to overcome a lot of the trauma from my years at GP. I still am hypervigilant and wary of churches, though I've finally found a community where I feel loved and accepted as I am. So again, I'm not telling you to leave, but be cautious and look out for the warning signs. Don't ignore it if your gut starts to tell you something is wrong. God is about redemption and connection, not shame and facades.
Delete"Praise to God who draws all men to himself."
ReplyDeleteAmen, amen, amen!