A few commenters have pointed out that Gracepoint has changed and are not like this anymore. This being the stuff that are described on this blog.
Here is a Yelp Review (that is hidden and not tallied into their final score) that is from October 2018 from "Christain" that sounds exactly like the Berkland I attended decades ago.
Here is a Yelp Review (that is hidden and not tallied into their final score) that is from October 2018 from "Christain" that sounds exactly like the Berkland I attended decades ago.
My experience at Gracepoint has been spiritually abusive. Please, please avoid this church as much as you can. Their teaching is unbiblical; the extreme emphasis and focus on sin is unhealthy.
Their practice of rebuke seems to me out of the context of Scripture, as leaders assert their power, authority and dominance on younger members.
Let's be clear, rebuking sessions at Gracepoint are not fun. In fact they are down-right humiliating and induce a lot of guilt-driven repentance. And, to be fair, if you're being rebuked, there is a fair chance that you did do something wrong... or not (e.g. - this post). But does this type of rebuking do more harm than good? I say it is extremely damaging! It is the reason why many people who leave feel so traumatized.
I'm not going to get into the correct, or Biblical way to rebuke, for that material is abundant. But let's talk about the culture of "getting rocked" Gracepoint. I'm not sure who started calling getting rebuked, "rocked," but it really turns something negative into something of a badge of honor. Again, it is often a horrible, humiliating ordeal. You sit there, being yelled at, belittled, guilt being heaved upon you, sometimes getting tag-teamed by two or three leaders. The "leaders" force you to confess to the point where you better start crying and feeling contrite. I have no doubt that leaders often agonize over what to do or say when contemplating a rebuke. But simply put, the ends do not justify the means.
Looking back, it is very disturbing to realize that I have seen many, soon after getting rebuked, smugly proclaim that they "got rocked". Why? After all, there was a lot of yelling, most likely some crying, and maybe some forced fervent and desperate prayer. To put it very simply, in the spiritual economy of the Gracepoint ecosystem, getting rocked is like getting audited and passing. Yes, finally, what you did caught up to you, it got addressed by the leaders, and if you repent, you have a small stamp of approval. Enough stamps and certifications and you will be qualified to move on up the ranks. To be fair though, some people just need to get corrected more often, because frankly, they just screw up a lot. However, my opinion is that there is too much guilt-driven manipulation and fearmongering, and not enough careful correction. Also, I've even seen leaders refer to how they got rocked by Pastor Ed or Kelly with a smug smile. Not always, but I've seen it.
You see, this behavior is modeled for other church members and it starts to become apparent that unless you get rebuked, the leaders must not care about you, or think of you much. Very silly, I know, but I know this is true because people have confided in me that they feel this way. I'm not making this up. Of course, they are not trying to get rebuked on purpose (who wants that?), but there is a really unhealthy element of the culture that I believe is one of the root causes of the spiritual abuse at Gracepoint. Just like a victim of domestic abuse, you tolerate more and more emotional damage, and begin to rationalize, because in the end they supposedly "love you." In reality, the abuser needs to control and manipulate you. If the abuser fails to do that, they rationalize by saying, "they don't love me and I guess I never loved them." At this church, it is the same, because if you do not respond to rebuke, you are spiritually desolate and they cannot shepherd or love you. For fledgling believers, it is very hard to know the right thing to do or how to respond, especially if you are a young impressionable college kid.
This is how you move hundreds of young people to mobilize quickly, efficiently, and without much complaint or deviance. Believe me, I would love to say everything is done out of a passion for Christ, but it is often not, not by most. The irony is, that on numerous occasions, I've heard a rebuke about not doing things out of a love for God and others, but the result is that people act because they do not want to get rebuked again. It's a vicious cycle.
Please, do not get sucked into this cult. They are excellent at outreaching to newcomers--it is insane. The experience I have had at this church has led me further away from God, and I really hope no one will experience what I underwent.
I remember all too clearly the day that my entire class got rebuked because one class member was found to be secretly dating another member of the church. I had no idea that this person was dating until the rebuking session over and I asked someone what was that all about. Kelly Kang/Ed Kang accused all of us of using the church for personal gain (marriage). Everyone was crying. I remember being very sleepy because this happened very late at night. Traumatizing and the message was clear. We control your dating life, you need to tell your leaders everything, you will be shamed in front of your class if you don't obey what we say. Needless to say, they were forced to break up. They both ended up leaving the church, one a few years after that and one many many years later.
Thank you to all the brave souls who left reviews on Yelp using their genuine profiles. I encourage you to continue to do so as it seems like profiles with one reviews often get "hidden." Thank you "Christain" and I'm sorry your review is hidden.
I'm confused by the Google (not Yelp) reviews. Every single one is five stars when I recall there also being lower rated ones. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but I'm also a little concerned that they managed to delete reviews. I say this because I know they recently got rid of Koinonia fellowship in Berkeley (their first fellowship) and merged it with their new fellowship called MakeNew. Staff said they chose to do this because they wanted to have three fellowships instead of four, and Koinonia has the worst reputation (and a lot of internet stuff is associated under that name) because it's been around for the longest. I understand they're trying to start afresh but it also felt weird they were claiming MakeNew was "established in 2012" when I'm sure it wasn't.
ReplyDeleteI have never reviewed the Gracepoint Google reviews but did so after reading your comment. I encourage every reader to leave an honest review there. They’re five stars according to Google reviews! Let me know if your review gets deleted.
DeleteGracepoint’s multiple ministry names are quite confusing to me. They seem to be using this strategy at not just Berkeley but at other college campuses as well. At first, it was a organizational decision but I think it has served them well because people who heard about Berkland/Gracepoint did not realize that Koinonia, Praxis, Klesis, A2F, MakeNew, etc... were the same.
Thanks Anon. I hope people read the reddit posts. UC Davis ministries seem to be particularly legalistic and authoritarian. Knowing some of the early leaders who weren sent to start that campus, I am not surprised.
ReplyDeleteHey John, would you be able to make a post about GP's history? Like, if you remember, when did they split from Berkland? When did they change their name to Gracepoint? How did people take it? I heard stories from my leaders and sometimes they address it at retreats but each time the story is a little different and it's brought up more to laugh at or ensure us it's not a big deal because this church isn't for everyone. I recently talked with a pastor in another church who's been in the Bay Area all his life and he said GP has been like this for the last 30 years. 30 years is a long time and I wasn't sure if that was accurate! It made me start wondering if GP really is changing like they are trying to (every semester they have structure changes for students to try make things better), or if there's no hope since they've tried to change for 30 years and haven't succeeded yet?!! I don't know who to believe.
ReplyDeleteI've had a "History of Gracepoint" post in draft for years. It will take a while for me to document it accurately. Some older posts capture some of the history. For example, the Ed Kang letter to Becky post.
DeleteI was at one of the churches when the split occurred.
ReplyDeleteTo give some background, a few years before the split they had at least 2 all berkland retreats. There was also a shuffling of all the pastors at some point. Probably not be related, but I thought it's notable Becky could make a bunch of pastors move to different cities and take on different ministries like that. I'm sure there was a good reason.
I wasn't on staff, I only knew what was announced to us.
Something about Becky didn't want to create a large institution stuck in their ways and allow her pastors to go out and run their own ministries. Autonomously. All the churches changed their names after that. I think there were many other name changes In the years to come, I have no idea what many of the ministries are called now.
Some of the different churches still associated themselves with each other. I guess it's a case by case basis. It seems many of them went their own ways. I recall Davis and Berkeley still did a lot of activities together.
Later on I talked to friends on staff who also left. They told me there was more to it, some kind of major disagreement between P. Ed and Becky. It was a lot more drama in the background than we were lead on to believe.
Many people were upset at how secretive the whole process was and information was withheld from the whole congregation. The autonomy decisions were made by the senior pastors during some kind of pastor only meeting, without any input or feedback from anyone else. I believe at one point they said we're only told what we needed to know and that if you want to know more, it's just seeking out gossip and rumors.
Is it correct that Ed Kang was trained under Becky Kim at Berkland? What is Becky Kim's spiritual lineage - did she found Berkland or did she rise among its ranks?
DeleteBecky (Rebekah) Kim and her husband Paul planted Berkland at Berkeley. The location of the church was on Alcatraz, a street that bordered Berkeley and Oakland, hence the name Berkland. Ed Kang and Kelly Kang were a part of the first group of students to consider Berkland their spiritual home. I think around 10 years after starting Berkland, Becky and Paul went to the East Coast to start Berkland Baptist Church East. They used to refer to BBC East and West for the two Berkland Churches. The church at Boston has since renamed itself Antioch Baptist Church. Berkland renamed itself Gracepoint after splitting from Becky. In the meantime, lots of other churches were started near other campuses like LA, Seattle, New York, and even overseas like Tashkent. So yes, it is correct that Ed Kang was trained under Becky Kim. That is kind of an understatement. I would say that Ed Kang is continuing the practices started by Becky at Berkland. I understand that Becky was part of UBF (University Bible Fellowship) when she was younger, perhaps when she was at SNU, and some speculate that as the source of some of the wrongful practices.
DeleteHow close was Ed to Becky in the chain of command and spiritual lineage? Was she his direct spiritual leader, or were there layers of staff between them at Berkland?
DeleteYes, she was his direct leader. And she was Kelly's direct leader too. There wasn't need for layers at this point... not a big church.
DeleteThe story I've heard was very similar. Whenever I had asked my leader or someone at gracepoint they would give me similar vague stories, and would tell me that I didn't need to know beyond that. I've been attending for quite a long time now, I still see quite a few similarities between berkland's leadership with gracepoints. Especially the lack of transparency between the head leaders of the church and the rest of the congregation.
ReplyDeleteYou are currently a member of GP Berkeley? Is it common for current members to participate on this blog?
DeleteI attended GP Berkeley until very recently. I started reading these comments and reviews because it helped me get out of GP that's why I'm here doing the same. Everyone at GP know about these reviews or blogs but they don't bother to read or interact in them. Most people think that these blogs and reviews are extreme, but I think this blog really helped me in my case.
DeleteI started doubting how the church was run and the people around me if they actually cared and loved me like family or just were nice and caring because they needed to for the sake of keeping me at this church. It's really sad how people can really be sucked into GP. I would see people so happy here and wonder if they had ever doubted, did things on their own without telling/asking leaders for advice, or looked at GP on the outside. Following your leader or pastor's commands or telling them everything about your life shouldn't be a must. In front of us, they look so caring, loving, and truly living the life of a christian to better those around us. But after a while, I just got cramped up with my own life and took a step back to look at what I was doing with my life. Yes, I did care alot about GP, I met a few very loving and caring friends and I did gain a stronger appreciation and love for god, but looking at how much it's influenced my own personal life in the negative way, I had to take a break. I realized that I need to have my own relationship with god. I don't need to update anyone on my weekly life experiences. Those around you can help you strengthen your relationship but it's ultimately up to yourself in defining and walking your path with the Lord. When I started interpreting his word on my own, and spending time on my own reflecting on the past 4 years I've been at GP Berkeley, I've kept those that matter most farther and father away. I felt like my sisters at GP were more important than my parents and my close friends. I've realized that the leadership at GP doesn't care about your family or the people who should matter most to you. They want the church to be on ur mind 24/7. It truly is sad, but I'm glad I realized this without having to go through more pain.
Thank you for your reply. How were you able to leave, knowing that you were forsaking your entire social circle that you have fully invested in over the past several years? From what I gather, many people choose to remain and talk themselves back into compliance because they feel like they would be abandoning their fellow victims. Are you still friends with some of the former members?
DeleteDoes everyone have to tell their leaders everything about their lives, or are some of the leaders more reasonable than others, and more respectful of people's boundaries?
As a first post on this site, I want to preface it by saying I was originally shaken by these reviews back as an undergrad and afraid of committing and staying at the church. Long story short, I stayed and I've graduated for a while now, serving at the church and have more behind the scenes knowledge. I came back to see if my perspective towards these posts had changed and was surprised to see such recent activity, which prompted me to try to offer a "different perspective". I'm not gonna deny there aren't any problems with this church, but show me a perfect church. It's odd that there's a dichotomy of 1 star and 5 star reviews everywhere (basically, those who left and those who stayed) but hey at least, there's different perspectives right? So if the author of this blog is willing, I'd like to offer that different perspective with the hope of helping those hurt understand a bit more (not to force them to accept it, nor to devalue their own experiences, but to help them find a way to heal and move on)
DeleteAs a disclaimer, I'm not speaking as an official staff representative, and will only state my own personal views, albeit many of them have been influenced by Gracepoint.
Back to the questions at hand, just going to answer some of the easier ones. I'm still very good friends with some former members, but a few have actually cut all ties off with me, which I assume is b/c they lumped me in as "Gracepoint" and attributed some of their frustrations on my part. So it's not that I don't want to be friends with them anymore, it's that they don't want to be friends with me anymore.
You never "have to" tell anyone anything. From my experience, it's just how normal relationships work. I don't "have to" tell my parents anything, or if I were married, nor would I "have to" tell my spouse anything, but I would out of trust and appreciation for that relationship. Ofc, not everyone is super close so I think some harm happens when a leader assumes that relational closeness when you're clearly not comfortable confessing things yet. And YES, definitely some of the leaders are more reasonable. I've realized you can't just lump everyone together as a corporation and hate everything. The leaders are human too, and they sin too. It's just that in higher positions of authority, sin has greater effects on the surroundings. I've heard P. Ed a few times mention "ministry malpractices" where he bemoans how some of the leaders are shooting themselves in the foot by how they treat their flock. So personally for me, I've found a few leaders I'm more comfortable with and will chat with them even if they're not my leaders anymore. Hope that helped!
Thank you for your reply on this forum. What do you think helped you "make it" at GP and remain a loyal member and see it in a positive light, while so many other members departed full of hurt and regrets at what they perceive as years of manipulation and false, un-Christian doctrine?
DeleteThe critique isn't that they're not perfect. Of course no church is. That excuse only goes so far. If you point out to the Catholic Church they have a major problem with sexual abuse by their clergy, no one is going to buy the "well no church is perfect, we're all sinners " defense .
ReplyDeleteMoreover the problems pointed out about gracepoint can't be glossed over with , well they have good intentions.
The problems are much deeper than that. They want power and authority over people. They expect a certain level of benefits that come with that. Whatever intentions they had, it's end effect is that it's damaging and hurting members, many who leave angry and depressed.
Did some people get something positive from the church? Probably. Does that make the cases of depression and anger and hurt acceptable then? I don't think it does
I agree wholeheartedly.
DeleteHey John, sad that so many people have suffered from this cult. May I suggest you to set up a forum for people to share and initiate topics against this cult?
ReplyDeleteI have friends that left another cult called he witness lee local church and the ex-members have formed a nice community thru an online forum to denounce the cult’s practices and share their experiences. Here’s the forum url: http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/
Hi, I can't at this time but if any reader wants to, I can link to it.
Delete