Got a comment recently:
Hey John,
Read these articles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cults_in_Our_Midst
I think it would be useful if you could relate them to your experience and share your conclusion on this blog.
Sincerely,
Just Left
From the first article:
While I don't completely agree with the above definition, I can say that from my experience Berkland/Gracepoint definitely encourages the staff to lavish "love" on newcomers and new students. Whether it is genuine or not, is a question for each person. I personally experienced a lot of pressure to "love" freshmen, even if there was no genuine connection between me and the newcomer. When I used to go, each new person was "assigned" to a small group and it was the small group's responsibility to ensure that this new person felt welcomed and loved.
For example, I was told to give a ride to someone who lived in San Francisco during the summer so that this person could come to church. Had I been a stronger person, I probably would have said no. But at the time, I thought that I had to obey everything my leader asked me to do.
As an older student, I felt pressured to get a car, so I could "do ministry." I gave countless rides to the airport, Costco, Target, etc. and to Southern California. Most passengers did not have to decency to offer help to pay for gas.
I helped countless persons move. I've cooked countless meals.
Was this genuine love? Maybe some of it. But not all. We were taught that our feelings didn't matter. What mattered was obedience and sacrifice. If love didn't hurt or cost me something, it wasn't real. This is how we prove our love for Christ, by pouring out our lives for another.
Sounds wonderful.
But when there is so much pressure, it takes away a person's ability to choose to do this on their own. For the Holy Spirit to do the work inside a person's heart. It also takes away gratitude from the receiver. It was almost expected that whatever someone "needed," the person trying to reach out to the newcomer had to fill that need.
I was a recipient of "love bombing" as well. I needed to get a small table but didn't have a car. An older person in my small group had a car but this person didn't really want to give me a ride. The leader told this person to give me a ride. This person was rebuked in front of me for being selfish. Totally shamed. Looking back on it, I feel very bad for this person.
Even though this person and I went together to get the table, the whole experience left a bitter taste in my mouth. To receive from someone who did not want to give. This is not "love."
Hey John,
Read these articles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cults_in_Our_Midst
I think it would be useful if you could relate them to your experience and share your conclusion on this blog.
Sincerely,
Just Left
From the first article:
Love bombing is an attempt to influence a person by lavish demonstrations of attention and affection. The phrase can be used in different ways. Members of the Unification Church of the United States (who reportedly coined the expression) use or have used it to convey a genuine expression of friendship, fellowship, interest, or concern. Critics of cults use the phrase with the implication that the "love" is feigned and that the practice is psychological manipulation in order to create a feeling of unity within the group against a society perceived as hostile."
While I don't completely agree with the above definition, I can say that from my experience Berkland/Gracepoint definitely encourages the staff to lavish "love" on newcomers and new students. Whether it is genuine or not, is a question for each person. I personally experienced a lot of pressure to "love" freshmen, even if there was no genuine connection between me and the newcomer. When I used to go, each new person was "assigned" to a small group and it was the small group's responsibility to ensure that this new person felt welcomed and loved.
For example, I was told to give a ride to someone who lived in San Francisco during the summer so that this person could come to church. Had I been a stronger person, I probably would have said no. But at the time, I thought that I had to obey everything my leader asked me to do.
As an older student, I felt pressured to get a car, so I could "do ministry." I gave countless rides to the airport, Costco, Target, etc. and to Southern California. Most passengers did not have to decency to offer help to pay for gas.
I helped countless persons move. I've cooked countless meals.
Was this genuine love? Maybe some of it. But not all. We were taught that our feelings didn't matter. What mattered was obedience and sacrifice. If love didn't hurt or cost me something, it wasn't real. This is how we prove our love for Christ, by pouring out our lives for another.
Sounds wonderful.
But when there is so much pressure, it takes away a person's ability to choose to do this on their own. For the Holy Spirit to do the work inside a person's heart. It also takes away gratitude from the receiver. It was almost expected that whatever someone "needed," the person trying to reach out to the newcomer had to fill that need.
I was a recipient of "love bombing" as well. I needed to get a small table but didn't have a car. An older person in my small group had a car but this person didn't really want to give me a ride. The leader told this person to give me a ride. This person was rebuked in front of me for being selfish. Totally shamed. Looking back on it, I feel very bad for this person.
Even though this person and I went together to get the table, the whole experience left a bitter taste in my mouth. To receive from someone who did not want to give. This is not "love."
Hi, I am so happy that this site is still up and running. This may seem like a silly question, but I honestly don't know the answer. My brother is a core leader and current lifer at Gracepoint. Berkland was his first and only church experience. Would it do any good to send him this blog? Or would he just be defensive? I've tried many ways to persuade him out for the last 17 yrs, and mostly given up. But he's my brother so I have to hope...
ReplyDeleteHas your brother ever told you that he's struggling being at GP or that he entertains thoughts of leaving? If the answer is yes, I would reach out and help get him out. Otherwise, just keep hoping. Your brother is probably stuck in the thinking that GP is making him into a better person and that he's living a purposeful life being a leader. That type of determination is tough to break. -Bento
DeleteHe did years ago, and at that time I didn't know what to say. I didn't know the pressures he was under. I've been reading on this subject lately and am concerned that the abuse is still happening. By the way, admin John - keep this entire site backed up in case some GP person takes it down! The contents are too valuable. Thanks.
DeleteWhat a tough situation. Ultimately, your brother has to live his own life and you have to accept whatever choices he makes. You also cannot control or predict how he will react to your sending the link. Are you able to accept whatever his response might be?
DeleteHey reaching out to the original commenter here, in case you still read this blog. Did you ever send it to your brother? Is he still involved?
DeleteIf anyone else has had family members caught up in this, can you share your experience of how you may have been able to get through to them?
you know, i think love bombing i experienced at berkland had negatively influenced the way i perceived relationships for most of my life.
ReplyDeleteI can relate.
DeleteWow, now that I think about it, "love bombing" is the correct term to apply to Gracepoint tactics. "Love bombing" usually applies to cults, but the fact that I could sense Gracepoint staff's troop-like, clockwork routine in carrying out these actions, I do now see now, how even though they are biblically based in doctrine, their culture is very much cult-like.
ReplyDeleteCharacteristics of a cult - let's see how many Gracepoint exhibits:
ReplyDelete(1) Love bombing on newcomers
(2) Us versus them mentality - very obvious from the beginning the constant comparison of Gracepoint church against other churches out there, which causes members to believe that if they attend another church, they will fall away from God, which is utterly false and undermines the work of the Holy Spirit!
(3) Indoctrination - you name it, pretty much anything that is peculiar to Gracepoint.
(4) Militaristic organizational structure that extends to every aspect of a member's life.
(5) Lifestyle creates clones. Every acts the same, talks the same, dresses the same. Like a communist country. No individuality.
Hi John,
ReplyDeleteReally big thanks for this blog. I've been a part of GP for many years since I came to Berkeley, and I'm honestly shocked by a lot of the things that people have been saying about GP. In all honesty, I haven't come across almost all of the criticisms that have been leveled against the church so far - I don't know if it's because it has changed thanks to the Lord since people have left, or I just got lucky with the people I met here. However, lately since I've converted, I've been feeling somewhat more pressure to join ministry. In all honesty, it's because of my own feelings of wanting to serve the Lord and others, but I'm afraid that if I do, a lot of the problems with the authoritarian power structure and spiritual abuse might happen.
I would love to talk more in person with you about GP, either through email or in person. In all honesty, I had trouble going to sleep last night, because I was shocked and dismayed that the church and the community I thought so highly of since college might have such hidden demons lying below the surface.
Check out Gracepoint's new attempt to reach college students:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.advancementorship.org/
It's been a couple years since I left Gracepoint, but the university was already catching on to their shady outreach tactics. Looks like they created a whole new front to try and target unsuspecting students.
Really sad to think students will come wanting professional help, only to be lured into Gracepoint through these devious schemes.
SO SCARY!
DeleteI actually compiled a list of all the shell groups that GP has at least on Instagram and its at least over 100. I'd be happy to post it once I polish it up. Kind of ironic for a group that cries about social media being bad.
DeleteAnd yes, right now based on what I've heard from some of the people that I know still there, they are desperately trying to push the mentorship angle insofar they are advertising shamelessly on LinkedIn. I think they are trying to rebrand and also bait and switch harder. It's quite embarrassing that this church can't get a clue that they aren't even ministering, it's just a numbers game to them.
I also do want to leak that these people blatantly ignored county orders in Alameda and still met during the beginning of COVID-19 lockdown albeit wearing masks. I think at this point we need to stop pretending to call Gracepoint a church. This is a borderline cult.
The bait-and-switch aspect of so many of gracepoint's ministries was one of the reasons I decided to leave. It's so uncomfortable. You know that this isn't a ministry being done because they genuinely just want to mentor and guide students. There will always be that pressure to transition to some kind of gospel conversation. And when it happens, and it comes to light that was the goal the whole time, it's so creepy. I cringe remember the times I was made to do DC outreach on college campuses for this same reason.
DeleteWhat's really sad is, it doesn't have to look like this! There are tons of churches that want to provide resources to the community around them with no strings attached, and no expectation that staff are trying to get the person to go to church. And people see that there's something genuine there, and are drawn to it.
Totally right. I remember being there and it was sacrilegious to have any form of social media at all. Now suddenly everyone has social media, including leaders and they advertise a lot on social media... Wonder what happened to suddenly change their tune.
DeleteTo add on to that change of their tune, I remember leaders including Pastor Ed ridiculing the Facebook and Google engineers and now suddenly for their mentorship they have to specify Google engineers will be involved in the program namely people in their church. This church's double standards really has no bounds. Or it's amazing how everyone in the church swallows the lies.
DeleteThey have also ramped up targeting student athletes right now on campuses such as UChicago. I distinctly remember leaders looking down on Christian athletes. Oh wait, the leaders just use everyone for leverage to validate their bullshit like they did with Lecrae and Acts2Campus Network. I wouldn't put it past them if they started a focus group to make themselves look like they're trying to care about BLM. Oh wait, they already stopped caring after the hyped down.
I also heard they were evaluating driving down to Texas for ATTR because of no restrictions just to meet and do their Trump-esque rallies. So much for pretending to care about the community and a pandemic.
It's because of COVID and SIP to out reach to the students. From what I heard it's been difficult to reach out for students in person.
Delete@Leave Gracepoint
Deletedo you plan on posting/listing on the shell groups of GP?
also, what is "ATTR"?
It stands for All Team Training Retreat - or something similar
DeleteI will post it some time in a month or so. It's taking a while to clean up because I usually save the IG profile first and then I confirm it with a website or cross reference it somehow. I will let John Kim post it when it is ready.
DeleteWho can I talk with about this church. My son works a job and works for the church. He has no freedom I don’t understand what hold they have on him. I wish he never would have met them at UCLA. I’m not going to sit down for this cult anymore. He’s writing a mentor ship of how to get into medical school while postponing taking his MCAT. I’m not the only upset parent. These people are not good. They pretend and it’s worse than a cult. They want the brightest kids to work for them. I’m done with this and will not stay quiet anymore.
DeleteShoot me an email @ leavegracepoint [at] gmail. I would be more than happy to talk to you about it and can always loop in more of my friends who have left.
DeleteWhat happened was they just exposed themselves as the frauds they are...yet the fact they STILL try to lecture everyone on their moral high horse on what a "true Christian" life looks like... is truly an embarrassment to Christianity as a whole
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bayareamentors.com/ - the bait and switch continues!
ReplyDeleteAre you sure that's them? Why are they so reluctant to just say whom they represent and avoid the awkwardness of the reveal later on?
Deleteamd, I just looked at the site and it absolutely looks like them. Free mentoring to lure in more folks... why not just be transparent and say it's a ministry arm of Gracepoint. Shady shady shady.
Delete@amd It's 100% them. https://www.bayareamentors.com/mentors
DeleteI can confirm that I personally know at least half of them and can confirm they are still extremely active at GP. Also note that the a majority of the mentors are married couples that are involved in this ministry together.
Also don't you find it hypocritical they shit on career and guilt trip you into not pursuing medical school and brag about rejecting the top companies to go church planting and then suddenly turnaround trying to mentor people. Talk about lies and desperation. A real church would not need to go this low and create a bait and switch just to attract people.
I think this is another one:
Deletehttps://www.advancementorship.org/
I can confirm Advance Mentorship is 100% also GP's. https://www.advancementorship.org/advisors
DeleteI know at least half of the advisors. Some are my peers, old leaders, and well people I recruited into that cult when I was in college. Also interesting thing to note the USF advisors are also all Bay Area Mentors. Not sure what level of pathetic you need to be to sell your ministry as a "mentorship" of a bunch of people that have their careers half assed because of GP ministry and have two separate groups doing the exact same thing. This is a church that downplays doctors because of the time it sucks away from their ministry and scorns the FAANG engineers as an idol and they want to now mentor you in career. The hypocrisy is astounding. Also, one final observation, other than one person no one works at a hot tech company...
Both sites are definitely them, I personally know many of the students and advisors in both sites.
ReplyDeleteIt boggles my mind why they think this is a good idea. Even if they are able to form relationships with students, do they really think they won't feel suspicious when they find out they were lured out with a bait and switch technique? What type of impression will this leave on non-Christians when they find out they've been duped?
The thing is, at the end of this, maybe a couple of students will come, and maybe it will help keep their college ministry afloat during shelter in place. But how many damaged impression of Christianity will this leave with all the other people who see through their tactics?
And the duplicity goes above just staff to the students they're reaching. I know from personal experience, with a lot of these bad ideas, the real motivation behind it is the pastor/pastor's wife telling the leads they need to come up with things for the staff to do so they "don't get complacent"...
I can't say for sure for this scenario, but this smells like one of those scenarios where the publicized reason they're doing it is outreach and ministry, but behind the scenes at the leads level, it's just someone going on a power trip, coming up with something else to do so they can control the staff's lives.
I 100% agree with you that this definitely damages what the other people view of Christianity and Christians. This is actually one of the main reasons I chose to leave GP.
DeleteI grew close to some of the undergraduates during my time at GP that got dragged into their "Advance Mentorship", and I think it's tragic that they don't recognize how deceitful and damaging the whole bait-and-switch method of "outreaching" GP advocates for.
And it's not just the recent "professional mentorships" that have popped up. I can think of "interest groups" or "fun hangouts" on campus that GP uses to lure people in while identifying themselves as just "a group of friends that like to do X together" when students directly ask who they are.
I agree with the complacency point. That’s why so many leaders get shuffled around different ministries or church plants, to avoid complacency. Interhigh was a similar idea to try to revolutionize Christian outreach with a new model, seeker small groups, etc...
DeleteI also wanted to add they were so focused on growing that they screwed over the USC church plant the first time they were there. Basically what happened was they pulled Brian Song out for some reason, I assume it was something sin related that would hurt their image. Because they had no leader there, the entire USC ministry disbanded. Now the really jacked up thing is GP decided to plant at many East Coast schools during that time. Instead of sending reinforcements to keep USC up and running for the sake of the students, they decide to go plant on the East Coast. To clarify it wasn't just one group per school, it was multiple groups per school. And also they had already were extremely well established at UCLA that they could always get some more seasoned leader to support USC. Honestly, how many groups does GP need to start at a school? Doesn't it really make you wonder what their priority really is? Is it really the students that Pastor Ed and Kelly really claim to anguish over when they make mistakes or is it really their damn egos that knows no bounds?
DeleteAnd also note, their models will always lead to pushing Course101 down people's throats just so they can hear about it in the testimonies of baptism candidates and the leader gets a pat in the back for another one of their quota met.
Yes, it's sad that the ministry disbanded. I don't know the exact reasons since I was not there and I've been gone for some time now but I'd give them more benefit of the doubt in this case. Maybe ministry was tough at that campus or they had another reason. I think it's okay to step down from a ministry position too. Bryan is human just as we are. I wouldn't jump to your conclusions with that.
DeleteOn your last note, I feel the same that there is this sort of culture that promotes spiritual recognition.
^What an understatement! "Level of spirituality" is the currency of choice at Gracepoint and it's used to dole out marriage, recognition, permission to date, titles, positions of authority, etc. etc.
DeleteNo matter what, I don't think it's Bryan's fault. I blame this solely on the leadership at the top and their priorities with resourcing. All I'm saying is the resources used to plant one less group on the East Coast could have been used to focus on supporting USC. Instead they planted two groups at UNC, and the USC students that were abandoned were forced to either commute themselves to UCLA or forced to look for new churches. So who does GP really care about? Their ego with their church plants or the students they are ministering to.
DeleteI heard that they are doing another round of church planting this year... some more in the east coast and the midwest.
DeleteYes, can confirm another round of church planting this year ^
DeleteIf that's true, then I think they may be planting quickly as many as they can, some will fail, some will succeed, then they can use the successful ones to boast the "a church in every college town" slogan. Also it's quite selfish on the leaders side that they ask people to give up their stabilities in the midst of a pandemic.
DeleteIt's confirmed. Here's the preliminary list that was leaked to me.
DeletePurdue, Indiana, UMichigan, Wiconsin, Ohio State, UIUC for the midwest, some Boston area schools (not sure how they are going to enter Harvard when Becky Kim is a chaplain), Philly area schools (most likely UPenn and Drexel), Texas A&M (probably going to be leveraging UT Austin church plant), and Georgia Tech/Emory.
That is quite interesting regarding Boston. It sounds like the powers have deemed that since 15+ years have passed, it is no more. They have already planted churches where satellite churches that have sided with Berkland stayed, including LA, DMV area, etc. It was about time they planted in Boston, arguably the most college-centric city in our country.
Deletewell here's another one: https://internationalmentorship.org/
ReplyDeleteFinally Conrad Chu shows up. I was wondering if he would get himself involved in this and I guess he did. And yes once again there's a lot of overlap with people in Bay Area Mentors and Advance Mentorship.
Delete