Nov 13, 2009 6:38 PM
What is Ministry?
by makestraight
This question of “What is ministry?” has been on my mind lately.
If you are at Gracepoint, it’s defined essentially as doing what you have been ASSIGNED to do by your Gracepoint leaders. By “assigned” I mean something that becomes your main responsibility in Gracepoint, whether you volunteered, or something suggested it to you. It could be children’s ministry, college ministry or young adult [post college] ministry and so forth.
If you are a staff, it’s to become a fully devoted bi-vocational minister, meaning, that during the day, you work your regular day job, and then all the other time, your main focus would surround whatever department you are assigned to.
For example, if you are a college staff member, your ministry would involve tasks such as the following:
Attending meetings about logistics for planning events such as New Student Welcome Night and its huge BBQ effort
Putting together an excel file per the above with responsibilities
Helping students move into their dorm to invite them to New Student Welcome Night.
Going to the Dining Commons on campus and then trying to sit next to a lonely looking freshmen or junior transfer to get them to come to Gracepoint, under the name of their campus groups [I don't know what all their names are - they have several now I believe]. Then gather their contact information for follow up.
Calling your contacts weekly and trying to arrange meetings with them, providing free dinner or get together with other staff. This may involve trips for shopping or touring around the bay.
Writing weekly reports to inform your direct leader, who will then inform their leader, who will in turn inform Pastor Ed and Kelly Kang about how you’re doing. They only inform them if you’ve committed some really significant folly or did something really great.
Serving in some other capacity – church setup, church cleaning, photoshop for flyers, etc etc.
As you can tell, a lot of these would take up a lot of time. There’s really nothing wrong with each of the things above [except for the optional-but-really-mandatory weekly reports]. I think it’s great to try to meet the needs of college students and to try to introduce them to the gospel.
The problem I do have, however, is that it’s so systematized. This template of ministry has been done for years, since the Berkland days. It’s just how Gracepoint does “ministry”, and it’s a duty based ministry at that, where essentially based upon your title of “staff” you are expected to do a certain amount of work, and be about as busy as other staff at your level, or at least be on par with your “peers” [those who graduated in the same year]. There are exceptions to this of course. If you are deemed “struggling” where you are not doing well in your faith [although it could be b/c of the legalistic structure of Gracepoint itself], or if you joined later, post college, or are not yet Christian.
Because of this expectation, a lot of staff, intentionally or not, end up doing ministry partly motivated to keep up with their peers, or to live up to their title. If not, they would be called in for a talk. My personal experience in my relationships with leaders is that although they constantly tell you that ministry is not everything, and that you should not be performance based, the expectations to live up to your staff title and being busy to a certain expected degree are clearly there. I’ve had leaders talk to me about other lower staff, and mention in grief that those certain staff were not doing enough, and that they were not fast-moving, clueless, etc. – a clear note that those staff were being measured by how busy and efficient they were.
Additionally, I’ve seen ministry used as leverage to “encourage” the recipients of ministry to be good ministers to others. What I mean is, that they’ll say things like “Didn’t we show a lot of love to you? How can you then not minister to others??” This is a debt-based system that tries to spur people on through guilt and restitution.
The worst part of how ministry is defined in Gracepoint is that they define for you what ministry is, and it’s usually in the context of Gracepoint, and restrictive at that. If you wanted to do some more “individualistic” ministry, or even ministry with other church friends, that’s frowned upon, and seen as secondary. You might be allowed to do some of it if it does not conflict with your existing GP ministry duties, but essentially you are bound heavily to the obligations specific that GP ministry that you “volunteered” for.
Furthermore, Gracepoint hardly ever teams up with any other church in order to do ministry. Perhaps other churches just aren’t efficient or excellent enough for them.
So again, what is the biblical idea of “ministry”?
I copied the following from www.gotquestions.org
Question: “What is Christian ministry?”
Answer: “Ministry” is from the Greek word diakoneo, meaning “to serve” or douleuo, meaning “to serve as a slave.” In the New Testament, ministry is seen as service to God and to other people in His name. Jesus provided the pattern for Christian ministry—He came, not to receive service, but to give it (see Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; John 13:1-17).
The Christian should minister by meeting people’s needs with love and humility on Christ’s behalf (see Matthew 20:26; Mark 10:43; John 2:5,9; Acts 6:3; Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:10; Colossians 4:12). Christians are to minister to others out of their devotion to Christ and their love for others, whether the other people are believers or unbelievers. Ministry to others should be impartial and unconditional, always seeking to help others as Jesus would.
The ministry in our day has taken on more of a vocational meaning as we call pastors “ministers” to full-time service. Pastors do spend their lives in the ministry, they do minister to others, and they can rightly be designated as ministers, but pastors are not the only ones who are to be involved in ministry. From the early New Testament churches to the churches of our day, each Christian should be in the ministry of helping others (see Romans 12:3-8, 10-13; 2 Timothy 2:24-26).
The content of ministry seems to prioritize the ministering in spiritual things, not just practical things. Ministry should certainly place emphasis on sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so they can come to know Him and receive Him as personal Savior, go on to experience Him as Lord of their life, and go even further to know Christ as the essence of their Life (see John 1:12; Colossians 2:6-7; Galatians 2:20; Philippians 3:8-10). Ministry can, and should, include ministering to the physical, emotional, mental, vocational, and financial needs of others. Jesus did, and so should we!
I think that’ s a great definition. I especially appreciate how ministry is more loosely defined that it’s to meet others’ needs out of devotion to Christ, and that it’s impartial and unconditional. It means you can’t say “well, we did this for you, how can you not then minister to others??” It’s meant to be fully giving, and unconditional, just like God’s love for us.
Furthermore, it’s not restrictive, nor narrowly defined in any way. It’s not to just do the duties discharged to you from your church leaders. No, it’s to be Jesus to those that are needy.
Let’s now take a look at how ministry is defined directly or indirectly in the Bible itself.
If you search for the word “ministry” in the Bible, you won’t find any real definition of what ministry is. I think as the definition above provides it from the Greek, it’s just a reference to serve, and when we do Christian ministry, it’s to serve out of our love for Christ. It does state in 2 locations in 1 Chron 25, and 2 Cor 5 about “ministry of prophesying” and “ministry of reconciliation” respectively, but nothing else that really defines what its duties entail specifically.
If you look up “minister” you find a lot more hits, but you will find most of them relating to the Old Testament, and to the duties of a priests.
A couple of passages do stand out for me however, with reference to “minister”.
2 Cor 3:5-7
5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Romans 15:15-17
15I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Paul talks about being a minister of a new covenant, one bound by God’s unconditional commitment to us, where he holds both ends of the covenant, one by Jesus and one by the Father himself. This new covenant is not based upon our own ability to hold up our part of the bargain, rather, Jesus fulfilled it for us, and continues to stand for us, and only by Jesus are we deemed perfect by the Father, sinless, bound by grace. Paul specifies that it’s not of the “letter” meaning no longer by the Law, b/c it kills!
The Spirit gives life, but legalism kills.
In Romans, Paul generically defines his ministry as a duty to proclaim the gospel to the Gentiles.
There are no lists, no specific duties. He calls it a duty, but he’s referring to the overall big picture of ministry, that proclaiming the gospel is what he’s supposed to do.
This essentially implies that ministry cannot and should not be defined by church leaders. Rather, ministry can be done in smaller groups, in pairs, or even individually as Jesus himself was known to do. And it’s not about the church name. “We’re doing this and we’re from Gracepoint”.
No! It’s “we’re doing this b/c God loves us, and we want to love you.”
Furthermore, I believe God has given us the overall task of the Great Commission to proclaim the gospel, but also that our ministry is defined by living good lives among men so that they will give glory to God as we do our day to day tasks.
1 Peter 2:12
Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
1 Thess 4:11
Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you…
So it’s not just about doing doing doing everything about program-based ministry. Ministry is also just one that exudes from your character, where your neighbors will see a difference about you in your daily life. Often at Gracepoint, you are so busy within the context of the church that you cannot minister to anyone outside of Gracepoint. I also want to point out that the respect you garner is just given to you by the title and position given to you by the older leaders. “Here’s your small group leader,” and that’s that.
As a result, I’ve seen leaders with ugly un-Christlike character, but you could not say anything to them. Why? B/c by title they were your mentors and leaders, not by their own character.
Imagine a church were people did ministry b/c they wanted to, and not to keep up with their peers, or to live up to their title. Imagine where people, out of personal conviction, did ministry sometimes individually, sometimes with friends [inside or outside of their church], and sometimes with their church. Then they can share with their leaders, or their other church friends about their ministry and pray, and give glory to God, and encourage one another. Sometimes, one might be prompted by the Holy Spirit and so something slightly out of the ordinary, and his/her friend can join and see how God leads and provides, without having to consult and get an OK from their leader [who will see if it fits for their church and if not reject it as a bad idea].
I imagine that’s what God intended.
Not systematic, not restrictive, but out of our appreciation of God’s love, grace, and mercy for us.
Matthew 10:8 - …Freely you have received, freely give.
[With this post, barring any significant events that may motivate me, I consider this blog finished. I think I have compiled enough information for anyone looking to make sense of the abuses and aberrations they suspect themselves, for that to be validated. I will answer any comments directed toward me. However, I have prayed about this, and I think God desires for me now to move on to other ministry.
Thank you for all those that have read.
I do hope all of you ex-Berkland/GFC people find healing, and that God will minister to you. And as you find healing may you minister to others freely.
I will adhere to my original promise - if I hear of genuine repentance from Pastor Ed Kang and his wife Kelly, I will take down this blog.]
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
The Credibility of Bitter Gracepoint Leavers
Jan 11, 2010 11:13 AM
The Credibility of Bitter Gracepoint Leavers
by makestraight
First of all, I suppose I need to qualify myself and say that yes, I am writing again in spite of me stating in my last post about ministry that it would be my last.
Why?
Because some topics have been pressing upon my heart, and I have been refusing to write them because I wanted to keep to my word. But then I thought about this whole effort again, and about doing things for the gospel in general.
My life is not entirely up to me to decide what I will do and what I will not. Following God as my Lord and Savior is about listening to his promptings and obeying, while also doing his general will of preaching the Word of God, and loving God and others.
With that in mind, I did have some other topics which have been pressing upon me, which I will post. How often will I post? I don’t know. Just as time allows and what topics I feel compelled to write about.
I wanted to write today about one major way in which Gracepoint Berkeley’s leaders dismiss the criticisms of its leavers. These are topics already somewhat addressed in this post about the Difficulty of Challenging a Cult or Spiritually Abusive Organization. However, I wanted to be more specific to Gracepoint.
When you leave Gracepoint on a “bad note”, you get labelled and judged as I’ve stated before. The general, usual angle is that you “could not hack it” and that you were “seeking comfort” or “the world” in some way. Or they might say you were just too rebellious.
Once you leave, it’s almost like the scales fall from your eyes, and you are able to see how legalistic, oppressive and abusive Gracepoint’s structure is. Then you can start coming up with criticisms, and often, they are laced with a lot of anger and bitterness, as evidenced by many of the comments in the Toxic Faith Gracepoint site by 1vois.
Often, Gracepoint leaders will dismiss these criticism as being invalid because they are laced with such bitterness. These people with complaints and feelings of intense anger are dubbed as somehow tremendously petty, oversensitive people who have complaints about stupid issues. As Gracepoint leaders tell their members this kind of framed, warped perspective, the members will often blindly accept that as truth.
Consider the following story:
A woman was jogging outside in an urban area in the evening. As she cuts across a rather empty parking lot, she is attacked by a stranger, and then raped. She cries out for help but to no avail. The man quickly flees and leaves her lying there in tears.
The woman gathers herself after a few minutes and then manages to get herself to the nearest police station. On the walk over, as she thinks about what happened, she feels robbed and violated. Her tears turn into anger and bitterness and she wishes somehow she could avenge what has happened to her.
She walks into the police station, and then two police officers come and listen to her story. They sit her down, and she tells them what happened to her. She is an emotional wreck, recounting her story in tears, anger and bitterness. She looks up after she’s done telling her story.
The two police officers look at each other, and tell her:
“I’m sorry ma’am, but we don’t believe you. You are obviously very negative and bitter and you can’t seem to tell your story objectively. We think your story is invalid and that no such rape has occurred. Please go home, we can give you a ride back if you’d like.”
Of course, this story is a fictional account to prove a point. [and yes, it's a hyperbole. I am not equating what happens to people there with rape]
Do negative emotions such as bitterness detract from the truth here? Or does it rather validate what has happened?
I ask you Gracepoint Berkeley member to try to absorb critical comments of GP with this in mind.
Also, if you have not already, please read my post on the Perspective of the Truth-Gathering Process.
Thank you.
The Credibility of Bitter Gracepoint Leavers
by makestraight
First of all, I suppose I need to qualify myself and say that yes, I am writing again in spite of me stating in my last post about ministry that it would be my last.
Why?
Because some topics have been pressing upon my heart, and I have been refusing to write them because I wanted to keep to my word. But then I thought about this whole effort again, and about doing things for the gospel in general.
My life is not entirely up to me to decide what I will do and what I will not. Following God as my Lord and Savior is about listening to his promptings and obeying, while also doing his general will of preaching the Word of God, and loving God and others.
With that in mind, I did have some other topics which have been pressing upon me, which I will post. How often will I post? I don’t know. Just as time allows and what topics I feel compelled to write about.
I wanted to write today about one major way in which Gracepoint Berkeley’s leaders dismiss the criticisms of its leavers. These are topics already somewhat addressed in this post about the Difficulty of Challenging a Cult or Spiritually Abusive Organization. However, I wanted to be more specific to Gracepoint.
When you leave Gracepoint on a “bad note”, you get labelled and judged as I’ve stated before. The general, usual angle is that you “could not hack it” and that you were “seeking comfort” or “the world” in some way. Or they might say you were just too rebellious.
Once you leave, it’s almost like the scales fall from your eyes, and you are able to see how legalistic, oppressive and abusive Gracepoint’s structure is. Then you can start coming up with criticisms, and often, they are laced with a lot of anger and bitterness, as evidenced by many of the comments in the Toxic Faith Gracepoint site by 1vois.
Often, Gracepoint leaders will dismiss these criticism as being invalid because they are laced with such bitterness. These people with complaints and feelings of intense anger are dubbed as somehow tremendously petty, oversensitive people who have complaints about stupid issues. As Gracepoint leaders tell their members this kind of framed, warped perspective, the members will often blindly accept that as truth.
Consider the following story:
A woman was jogging outside in an urban area in the evening. As she cuts across a rather empty parking lot, she is attacked by a stranger, and then raped. She cries out for help but to no avail. The man quickly flees and leaves her lying there in tears.
The woman gathers herself after a few minutes and then manages to get herself to the nearest police station. On the walk over, as she thinks about what happened, she feels robbed and violated. Her tears turn into anger and bitterness and she wishes somehow she could avenge what has happened to her.
She walks into the police station, and then two police officers come and listen to her story. They sit her down, and she tells them what happened to her. She is an emotional wreck, recounting her story in tears, anger and bitterness. She looks up after she’s done telling her story.
The two police officers look at each other, and tell her:
“I’m sorry ma’am, but we don’t believe you. You are obviously very negative and bitter and you can’t seem to tell your story objectively. We think your story is invalid and that no such rape has occurred. Please go home, we can give you a ride back if you’d like.”
Of course, this story is a fictional account to prove a point. [and yes, it's a hyperbole. I am not equating what happens to people there with rape]
Do negative emotions such as bitterness detract from the truth here? Or does it rather validate what has happened?
I ask you Gracepoint Berkeley member to try to absorb critical comments of GP with this in mind.
Also, if you have not already, please read my post on the Perspective of the Truth-Gathering Process.
Thank you.
Need for Outside Input to See Things Objectively
Jan 13, 2010 1:53 PM
Need for Outside Input to See Things Objectively
by makestraight
The following is a passage from the book “Churches that Abuse”, from Chapter 8 [available for online reading].
The similarity to how Pastor Ed Kang and his wife Kelly operate in Gracepoint Berkeley Church is astounding:
Unwavering obedience to religious leadership and unquestioning loyalty to the group would be less easily achieved if analysis and feedback were available to members from the outside. It is not without reason that leaders of abusive groups react so strongly and so defensively to any media criticism of their organizations. Don recalls what happened when adverse publicity about the community of Jesus began to appear in the media. “We were told in a meeting by Mother Cay and Mother Judy that we were not to read the article in Boston magazine and the newspaper article because we didn’t need to know about it. They said it was all baloney and that we were above all that sort of thing. We would stand for the persecution in the same way Jesus did.” But then Don adds: “Some of us who were rebels did read it, and in our brainwashed state, swept under the rug a good bit of what was said. But I think it did lay some of the groundwork for later questioning.“
In response to questions submitted by The Cape Codder to the Community of Jesus, the leadership issued a statement that essentially denied the allegations made by ex-members, claiming that the Community “stands in the long and honored tradition of monastic and semimonastic communities, which have existed since the early days of Christianity.” Regarding the role of founders Cay and Judy, the statement said that members “certainly do not regard them as infallible or surrogates for God.” The statement also made reference to Jesus’ words, “By their fruits you shall know them.” “We submit that the fruit of this Community’s life can be seen in the incredible abundance of creativity — music, drama, art, crafts of every description, gardening, and writing (to name a few) . . . “
Regarding the latter reference about being known by one’s fruits, a former COJ member remarked to me, “The fruit of the Spirit is well outlined in Galatians chapter five and has nothing to do with gardens, music, drama, art, and crafts.” Another ex-member, reacting to the statement, commented: “The leadership has done a beautiful job of putting together a large number of words that say nothing. They have never in any way responded directly to any of the facts which were stated as facts by various individuals in the media coverage. They always come out with a straw man that they set up and then batter down. ‘Oh, we don’t know of any of these things which the former members allege.’ But they were not allegations, they were facts. We witnessed the events, we knew they took place, and they happened to us.”
I would not be surprised if many of you reading are current Gracepoint Berkeley members with seeds of doubt about what’s going on there. What I’m trying to do with my blog is to provide support and validate those doubts as true.
It’s okay to doubt. Doubting the leaders there may be discouraged at Gracepoint, we need to see that it’s the context of doubting that makes it right or wrong.
Doubting what’s true, doubting God, etc, is what’s wrong. But you SHOULD doubt lies and anyone who’s not telling the truth. In Adam and Eve’s sin, Eve doubted God and trusted the serpent, when she should have doubted the serpent and trusted God.
But back to topic at hand, I encourage you to find time to speak to a pastor at another church, or speak to your other Christian friends [ones that do live out their faith] so that you can get an outside voices of truth and reason. I know this is easier said than done, considering that if you’re a staff member there, they would frown upon you doing such things. [I don't even know if you would have had the time to make any outside-of-Gracepoint Christian friends either.]
You NEED outside input to see things objectively.
Have courage. You should have a “hunger for truth” – as Pastor Ed stated himself in his message about truth. If you are seeking truth, then your leaders should actually encourage you.
Need for Outside Input to See Things Objectively
by makestraight
The following is a passage from the book “Churches that Abuse”, from Chapter 8 [available for online reading].
The similarity to how Pastor Ed Kang and his wife Kelly operate in Gracepoint Berkeley Church is astounding:
Unwavering obedience to religious leadership and unquestioning loyalty to the group would be less easily achieved if analysis and feedback were available to members from the outside. It is not without reason that leaders of abusive groups react so strongly and so defensively to any media criticism of their organizations. Don recalls what happened when adverse publicity about the community of Jesus began to appear in the media. “We were told in a meeting by Mother Cay and Mother Judy that we were not to read the article in Boston magazine and the newspaper article because we didn’t need to know about it. They said it was all baloney and that we were above all that sort of thing. We would stand for the persecution in the same way Jesus did.” But then Don adds: “Some of us who were rebels did read it, and in our brainwashed state, swept under the rug a good bit of what was said. But I think it did lay some of the groundwork for later questioning.“
In response to questions submitted by The Cape Codder to the Community of Jesus, the leadership issued a statement that essentially denied the allegations made by ex-members, claiming that the Community “stands in the long and honored tradition of monastic and semimonastic communities, which have existed since the early days of Christianity.” Regarding the role of founders Cay and Judy, the statement said that members “certainly do not regard them as infallible or surrogates for God.” The statement also made reference to Jesus’ words, “By their fruits you shall know them.” “We submit that the fruit of this Community’s life can be seen in the incredible abundance of creativity — music, drama, art, crafts of every description, gardening, and writing (to name a few) . . . “
Regarding the latter reference about being known by one’s fruits, a former COJ member remarked to me, “The fruit of the Spirit is well outlined in Galatians chapter five and has nothing to do with gardens, music, drama, art, and crafts.” Another ex-member, reacting to the statement, commented: “The leadership has done a beautiful job of putting together a large number of words that say nothing. They have never in any way responded directly to any of the facts which were stated as facts by various individuals in the media coverage. They always come out with a straw man that they set up and then batter down. ‘Oh, we don’t know of any of these things which the former members allege.’ But they were not allegations, they were facts. We witnessed the events, we knew they took place, and they happened to us.”
I would not be surprised if many of you reading are current Gracepoint Berkeley members with seeds of doubt about what’s going on there. What I’m trying to do with my blog is to provide support and validate those doubts as true.
It’s okay to doubt. Doubting the leaders there may be discouraged at Gracepoint, we need to see that it’s the context of doubting that makes it right or wrong.
Doubting what’s true, doubting God, etc, is what’s wrong. But you SHOULD doubt lies and anyone who’s not telling the truth. In Adam and Eve’s sin, Eve doubted God and trusted the serpent, when she should have doubted the serpent and trusted God.
But back to topic at hand, I encourage you to find time to speak to a pastor at another church, or speak to your other Christian friends [ones that do live out their faith] so that you can get an outside voices of truth and reason. I know this is easier said than done, considering that if you’re a staff member there, they would frown upon you doing such things. [I don't even know if you would have had the time to make any outside-of-Gracepoint Christian friends either.]
You NEED outside input to see things objectively.
Have courage. You should have a “hunger for truth” – as Pastor Ed stated himself in his message about truth. If you are seeking truth, then your leaders should actually encourage you.
Healthy Marriages, Healthy Society
Jan 14, 2010 9:56 AM
Healthy Marriages, Healthy Society
by makestraight
I subscribe to Chuck Colson’s Breakpoint articles [did so since my Gracepoint days]. Today’s article was particularly interesting, since it talks about marriage. Here’s a passage from it:
If we cannot strengthen and heal marriages in our own congregations, we have nothing to offer our society, which so desperately needs a renewed and vital understanding of the benefits and blessings of healthy marriages.
It’s called ” Healthy Marriages, Healthy Society“. I highly recommend reading the whole article.
When I was at Gracepoint, one thing I could not help but notice was the lack of good, biblical, model marriages. Among the directors, at best, I would see what was more similar to “business partnerships” and often I would see couples that just didn’t get along and were very stressed.
I don’t think I’d be wrong to attribute a large part of that that to the busy-ness of ministry required at Gracepoint, and the lack of time spent together, considering they only allow once-a-week-family-night.
The culture there is that Gracepoint ministry should come before marriage, and that “too much” time together would be idolatrous. If you asked the Kangs directly, I’m sure they would deny it, but the culture there is very clearly established that way.
Healthy Marriages, Healthy Society
by makestraight
I subscribe to Chuck Colson’s Breakpoint articles [did so since my Gracepoint days]. Today’s article was particularly interesting, since it talks about marriage. Here’s a passage from it:
If we cannot strengthen and heal marriages in our own congregations, we have nothing to offer our society, which so desperately needs a renewed and vital understanding of the benefits and blessings of healthy marriages.
It’s called ” Healthy Marriages, Healthy Society“. I highly recommend reading the whole article.
When I was at Gracepoint, one thing I could not help but notice was the lack of good, biblical, model marriages. Among the directors, at best, I would see what was more similar to “business partnerships” and often I would see couples that just didn’t get along and were very stressed.
I don’t think I’d be wrong to attribute a large part of that that to the busy-ness of ministry required at Gracepoint, and the lack of time spent together, considering they only allow once-a-week-family-night.
The culture there is that Gracepoint ministry should come before marriage, and that “too much” time together would be idolatrous. If you asked the Kangs directly, I’m sure they would deny it, but the culture there is very clearly established that way.
My Comments on the New Believers Article by Don Lattin
Jan 21, 2010 2:19 PM
My Comments on the New Believers Article by Don Lattin
by makestraight
I wanted to take the time to briefly address some of the things that Pastor Ed Kang stated in the “New Believers” article written by Don Lattin for Cal.
The Rev. Edward Kang ’86, J.D.’89, the senior pastor at Gracepoint Fellowship Church, said complaints about the expectations placed on church members will not stop him from asking tough questions about the way his flock live their lives. “How do you do a ministry that is absolutely safe from any kind of accusation? The way you do that is become this suburban country-club church, give a 20-minute homily, hope everyone lives it out, and then gather again next Sunday,” he said. “That kind of church will never get accused of anything.”
As I’ve stated in a comment elsewhere in this blog, this is a false dichotomy, a term that Pastor Ed himself likes to use. A false dichotomy is when two things are setup against each other and posted as opposites without any other alternative. For ex., “if you can’t be a doctor, then you’ll be homeless,” would be a false dichotomy, since obviously, there are many other professions a person could pursue.
Here, Ed is essentially stating that if you’re not as authoritarian, legalistic and demanding – he would put it as being fervent and serious about the gospel most likely – then you would end up being a lukewarm Sunday Christian.
This is a completely false “false dichotomy”.
I do concede that there are many lukewarm churches, but does that mean any other church not setup like Gracepoint is lukewarm? If you asked this directly into his face, Ed would most likely deny it, but he poses it as such in this article. It’s most likely his defense against this blog and others, stating that Gracepoint is only under scrutiny because they are so “fervent”.
Kang blamed some of the complaints about the college ministries run by Berkland and Gracepoint on the “very martial” nature of Korean culture. “I’m sure I’ve done my share of being short with people,” he confessed. “Up until the mid-’90s, that wounded a lot of people.”
Ed equates the complaints about Gracepoint as merely a cultural issue, and about him personally being “short with people,” or losing his temper essentially. That is not the same. The complaints against Gracepoint are about the overall overly authoritarian and legalistic, UNBIBLICAL setup that he and his wife Kelly has over that church.
However, he attempts to dismiss it as, “well, we’re Korean” and “well, I have had my share of having a short temper” which of course, seem like minor issues. But this issue with Gracepoint is NOT about being Korean, and not about people losing their temper.
Kang said it’s not that surprising that a student who leaves his church might feel isolated. “Suddenly, she is not meeting with her small church group. This might be her entire social network,” he said. He does acknowledge that some eventually find his church too authoritarian and too demanding, but shunning, he insists, is unacceptable. It was these practices—rebuking, shunning, and “shepherding,” the latter a radical form of Christian discipleship in which leaders exert an extraordinary influence on the personal lives of people in their flocks—that Kang said made him part ways with the Berkland network in 2006. In particular, he took umbrage with Rebekah Kim, who is now a leader of the Boston fellowship. (Rebekah Kim is not the same person as Rebecca Y. Kim, the Pepperdine sociologist.) Kang became, he said, “increasingly uncomfortable with her leadership and the culture at Berkland.” He severed the Cal ministries and changed the name of the Willard congregation to Gracepoint Fellowship Church.
I can only sigh about this above passage. First of all, it’s the bombarding of systematic kindness that draws in members in the first place. It starts in college where Gracepoint members seek students from helping move into their dorms to sitting with students at their very own dining commons. The staff members take them shopping, treat them to dinners, and meals, and will play sports with them. After all this systematic, targetted kindness, how can one NOT be drawn into Gracepoint church? It’s in a way, psychological manipulation in how systematic it is. One could probably be convinced to become a buddhist at this point, no?
But for Ed Kang to then present the situation almost as though it’s a person’s own fault for leaving and then feeling disconnected, is really wrong. It’s almost a bait and switch essentially, where you love-bomb people, and then urge them later in legalistic and authoritarian ways to do the same thing in this pyramid-scheme like structure for Gracepoint’s own growth and sustenance.
Note that when you’re “core” into Gracepoint, you are encouraged to really let go of other relationships, by “prioritizing” Gracepoint first.
They won’t actively tell you to dismiss your friends, but there are so many activities and obligations you could have tied to that church, especially as a staff member that you consequently and naturally lose touch with all your friends outside of Gracepoint. They at best, become prospects for “outreach” whom you call when Gracepoint decides to have an “outreach” event.
Also, the “shunning” does indeed happen. It’s not by a mandate that it happens. However, it’s really an odd mix of situations that causes shunning to occur. When someone leaves, the mid-level staff a lower have no idea what happened. Often, the older leaders and directors tell them an unfair angle of a story that’s self-serving to them. As I’ve stated before, they give a judgmental, one-sided reason, usually about how that person was essentially seeking the “world” or some “comfort”. Then the midlevel staff and others feel that since this person has “left God” that they should no longer associate with them, because after all, they no longer want to follow God. Any remote idea that perhaps what their leaders told them is not completely true, or even an outright lie does not enter their minds, because they have been taught and trained to quell any doubts of leaders, because believing leaders is like trusting God essentially.
At the same time, the GP leavers don’t want to have anything to do with Gracepoint anymore, because of hurts they have received [I"m talking valid ones, not spilled milk], or deceit they have experienced. They feel afraid to share anything because they know if they talk with any Gracepoint member, that member will obviously tell his/her own leader, and the word will travel up to the Kangs, who will most likely in turn twist that into, “see how bitter that person is?” They try to categorically dismiss any leavers accounts of what happened by leveraging their “trust relationship” with their members.
So on both parties, they don’t want to communicate, and the relationships automatically become awkward. The leavers realize the relationships really were not friendships, but working relationships under the umbrella of Gracepoint, and the members that stay pity the leavers, and they may even “pray for them” because they “left God for the world.”
Also, it’s astounding to me that Ed Kang could blame everything on Becky Kim. She had her significant issues, but he presents it as though she was the one leading the Berkland Berkeley back then, and doing all the rebuking, shunning and shepherding.
NO!
It was Ed himself and his wife Kelly Kang! THEY were the ones in the trenches doing the unbiblical rebuking and enforcing the unbiblical legalism through their hyper-authoritarian ways.
Ed frames it as though he were the hero and that he saved Berkland Berkeley from evil Becky Kim. Becky Kim was largely at fault for the whole of Berkland, but the specific sins in Berkland Berkeley were mostly due to Ed Kang and his wife Kelly. They actually promoted that same culture.
This is one of the worst cases of scapegoating I’ve seen in my life.
My Comments on the New Believers Article by Don Lattin
by makestraight
I wanted to take the time to briefly address some of the things that Pastor Ed Kang stated in the “New Believers” article written by Don Lattin for Cal.
The Rev. Edward Kang ’86, J.D.’89, the senior pastor at Gracepoint Fellowship Church, said complaints about the expectations placed on church members will not stop him from asking tough questions about the way his flock live their lives. “How do you do a ministry that is absolutely safe from any kind of accusation? The way you do that is become this suburban country-club church, give a 20-minute homily, hope everyone lives it out, and then gather again next Sunday,” he said. “That kind of church will never get accused of anything.”
As I’ve stated in a comment elsewhere in this blog, this is a false dichotomy, a term that Pastor Ed himself likes to use. A false dichotomy is when two things are setup against each other and posted as opposites without any other alternative. For ex., “if you can’t be a doctor, then you’ll be homeless,” would be a false dichotomy, since obviously, there are many other professions a person could pursue.
Here, Ed is essentially stating that if you’re not as authoritarian, legalistic and demanding – he would put it as being fervent and serious about the gospel most likely – then you would end up being a lukewarm Sunday Christian.
This is a completely false “false dichotomy”.
I do concede that there are many lukewarm churches, but does that mean any other church not setup like Gracepoint is lukewarm? If you asked this directly into his face, Ed would most likely deny it, but he poses it as such in this article. It’s most likely his defense against this blog and others, stating that Gracepoint is only under scrutiny because they are so “fervent”.
Kang blamed some of the complaints about the college ministries run by Berkland and Gracepoint on the “very martial” nature of Korean culture. “I’m sure I’ve done my share of being short with people,” he confessed. “Up until the mid-’90s, that wounded a lot of people.”
Ed equates the complaints about Gracepoint as merely a cultural issue, and about him personally being “short with people,” or losing his temper essentially. That is not the same. The complaints against Gracepoint are about the overall overly authoritarian and legalistic, UNBIBLICAL setup that he and his wife Kelly has over that church.
However, he attempts to dismiss it as, “well, we’re Korean” and “well, I have had my share of having a short temper” which of course, seem like minor issues. But this issue with Gracepoint is NOT about being Korean, and not about people losing their temper.
Kang said it’s not that surprising that a student who leaves his church might feel isolated. “Suddenly, she is not meeting with her small church group. This might be her entire social network,” he said. He does acknowledge that some eventually find his church too authoritarian and too demanding, but shunning, he insists, is unacceptable. It was these practices—rebuking, shunning, and “shepherding,” the latter a radical form of Christian discipleship in which leaders exert an extraordinary influence on the personal lives of people in their flocks—that Kang said made him part ways with the Berkland network in 2006. In particular, he took umbrage with Rebekah Kim, who is now a leader of the Boston fellowship. (Rebekah Kim is not the same person as Rebecca Y. Kim, the Pepperdine sociologist.) Kang became, he said, “increasingly uncomfortable with her leadership and the culture at Berkland.” He severed the Cal ministries and changed the name of the Willard congregation to Gracepoint Fellowship Church.
I can only sigh about this above passage. First of all, it’s the bombarding of systematic kindness that draws in members in the first place. It starts in college where Gracepoint members seek students from helping move into their dorms to sitting with students at their very own dining commons. The staff members take them shopping, treat them to dinners, and meals, and will play sports with them. After all this systematic, targetted kindness, how can one NOT be drawn into Gracepoint church? It’s in a way, psychological manipulation in how systematic it is. One could probably be convinced to become a buddhist at this point, no?
But for Ed Kang to then present the situation almost as though it’s a person’s own fault for leaving and then feeling disconnected, is really wrong. It’s almost a bait and switch essentially, where you love-bomb people, and then urge them later in legalistic and authoritarian ways to do the same thing in this pyramid-scheme like structure for Gracepoint’s own growth and sustenance.
Note that when you’re “core” into Gracepoint, you are encouraged to really let go of other relationships, by “prioritizing” Gracepoint first.
They won’t actively tell you to dismiss your friends, but there are so many activities and obligations you could have tied to that church, especially as a staff member that you consequently and naturally lose touch with all your friends outside of Gracepoint. They at best, become prospects for “outreach” whom you call when Gracepoint decides to have an “outreach” event.
Also, the “shunning” does indeed happen. It’s not by a mandate that it happens. However, it’s really an odd mix of situations that causes shunning to occur. When someone leaves, the mid-level staff a lower have no idea what happened. Often, the older leaders and directors tell them an unfair angle of a story that’s self-serving to them. As I’ve stated before, they give a judgmental, one-sided reason, usually about how that person was essentially seeking the “world” or some “comfort”. Then the midlevel staff and others feel that since this person has “left God” that they should no longer associate with them, because after all, they no longer want to follow God. Any remote idea that perhaps what their leaders told them is not completely true, or even an outright lie does not enter their minds, because they have been taught and trained to quell any doubts of leaders, because believing leaders is like trusting God essentially.
At the same time, the GP leavers don’t want to have anything to do with Gracepoint anymore, because of hurts they have received [I"m talking valid ones, not spilled milk], or deceit they have experienced. They feel afraid to share anything because they know if they talk with any Gracepoint member, that member will obviously tell his/her own leader, and the word will travel up to the Kangs, who will most likely in turn twist that into, “see how bitter that person is?” They try to categorically dismiss any leavers accounts of what happened by leveraging their “trust relationship” with their members.
So on both parties, they don’t want to communicate, and the relationships automatically become awkward. The leavers realize the relationships really were not friendships, but working relationships under the umbrella of Gracepoint, and the members that stay pity the leavers, and they may even “pray for them” because they “left God for the world.”
Also, it’s astounding to me that Ed Kang could blame everything on Becky Kim. She had her significant issues, but he presents it as though she was the one leading the Berkland Berkeley back then, and doing all the rebuking, shunning and shepherding.
NO!
It was Ed himself and his wife Kelly Kang! THEY were the ones in the trenches doing the unbiblical rebuking and enforcing the unbiblical legalism through their hyper-authoritarian ways.
Ed frames it as though he were the hero and that he saved Berkland Berkeley from evil Becky Kim. Becky Kim was largely at fault for the whole of Berkland, but the specific sins in Berkland Berkeley were mostly due to Ed Kang and his wife Kelly. They actually promoted that same culture.
This is one of the worst cases of scapegoating I’ve seen in my life.
Ed and Kelly Kang’s Twisted Responses to Truth
Jan 25, 2010 11:29 AM
Ed and Kelly Kang’s Twisted Responses to Truth
by makestraight
(updated 2/7/10)
Pastor Ed likes to generally preach on the topic of truth. What I have come to see of him however, is that he likes truth as long as it’s convenient to Gracepoint. When truths arise that reveal the full, actual truth, he and his wife Kelly take to the following tactics in order to dismiss them.
When blogs like this one arise, which tell the “other side” of the story you hear about Gracepoint [and its stories of spiritual abuse and legalism] they take to measures of psychological manipulation and rhetoric. Here are the basic methods that they use.
I think this post could have the potential of being very long, so I’ll just write short summaries for each. I’ll try to expand them later if I get around to it. [Please feel free to add to this in your comments, you GP leavers who experienced similar things]
1. Play Ignorant – Ed particularly does this well, and he has that straight lawyers face when he says it. But as recounted by several commenters, if you raise a valid criticism of Gracepoint, he will often say something along the lines of “I didn’t know, had I known, I would have changed it, but you should have told me earlier.” But even after you tell him at the time, nothing will actually change. This has apparently been going on for years, and I’m glad that with the power of the web, we can expose this once and for all.
2. Blame - Ed and Kelly also often blame you as the reason. Instead of acknowledging the problems about their own church, they will say it’s your fault. You might be too petty, too critical, too weird, too sensitive, too abnormal according to them. Their accusations are very powerful, since you have been groomed to trust them, and now they call you these names, and you start believing them. The reality is that they are very defensive, proud people who refuse to change the legalistic, dictatorial leadership they have over the church, because they have come to fall in love their positions of power and control. The irony of all of this is that Kelly herself is the most critical person I’ve known. She might not like the way the band is standing, and the way the women are dressed during weddings, and the font on some print out someone made. To beat the dead horse, she complained that no one said “happy birthday” to her on her birthday. Do you Gracepoint members not see the hypocrisy in this?
Sometimes, Ed will combine this with his method of playing ignorant. ”You should have told me earlier” and the implication is that it’s your fault for having remained silent.
This is the primary way in which they invalidate Gracepoint leavers – they assert that there was something particularly wrong with them, and nothing with the church. They are too bitter, ungrateful, etc etc. They might add that “well, we’ve made mistakes” and gloss over their own sins, but infer that NOTHING was worth leaving about.
3. Minimize – Ed and Kelly will also minimize an issue if it’s something that reflects badly upon them. They will say, “it’s not a big deal” and then again blame you for being overly critical and petty. The issue could be about a biblical issue, but they will somehow turn it into it being about you and your problem.
4. Individualize – They tend to also individualize the problem. ”It’s just YOU, no one else has this problem.” But as 1vois has pointed out in a recent comment, you realize only AFTER leaving and meeting some others that others were told the same thing. Again, because of the power of the web, such lies told by the Kangs to individuals in private to control and manipulate people, can be exposed and made to be out in the open.
5. Claim Misunderstanding – Ed and Kelly Kang also like to twist the truth if it exposes them and their sins by stating it was all a misunderstanding. They mean well, they LOVE everyone, and they are basically godly, but hey, there are “petty, weird, ungrateful” people out there who just don’t “get it”. So they try to get off blameless by stating that it’s really not their fault, and the blame again goes toward the other party. There’s a theme here of blame, isn’t there?
6. Intimidate - They will often intimidate people into believing only THEIR side of the story. One of the things that used to bother me, and one commenter referred to once, is that they will refer “anonymously” to people who have raised disagreements or criticisms. They might be leavers, or they might be current members sitting there in that same meeting. I say “anonymously” because they provide enough detail so that most of the members know exactly who is being referred to. It’s especially intimidating when that person being referred to is you, and your “peers” know also. They will proceed to read some email or summarize what happened, and then give their opinion in a very authoritarian way about how wrong it is. Because of the atmosphere, people will agree. They will dare not raise any disagreements in the middle of such a meeting or agree with the “dissenter” lest they look like black sheep. After all, there’s the staff title and the potential of their own marriage they have to worry about, which I’ve written about already.
Or they might call you in for a meeting in their office. They will have your immediate leader, your leader’s leader, and even perhaps Ed and Kelly themselves in the meeting. They will interrogate you with details about what happened, and then proceed to use their lawyer-like, prosecution-style method of challenging your memories. Of course, all of the leaders are on one team, and you are on the other. You are intimidated, outnumbered, and you most likely will stutter and not get your facts all straight. In the end you will most likely come out confused and blame yourself. They justify this kind of meeting as a meeting necessary to gather all parts of the truth, but they are all biased to be pro-Gracepoint and its structure. None of the lower staff will dare speak up to be on your side. This doesn’t happen to all people, but people whom they feel are dissenting too much, or have some general problem with Gracepoint Berkeley.
[Based on some comments, and some additional thoughts, here are some more ways that the Kangs respond in twisted ways to truth.]
7. Sweep it under the rug/drown it – Ever since these blogs exposing the truth about the Kangs and Gracepoint have come out, they have attempted to obviously flood the web with as many Gracepoint urls as possible, and have signed up Kelly and Ed to random social network sites. I already blogged about that one. They did this without even trying to directly address any actual criticisms. Often, they try to make blanket statements stating that the the criticisms are all lies without any logical reasoning. Rather, they resort to name calling and one-dimensional labeling of the critics.
8. Divert attention away from it – I can’t say for 100% reason if this is true, but this is more my opinion. When doubts or criticisms about Gracepoint and the Kangs build, I’ve seen some sudden large activity like some presentation or group reorganization done. I remember feeling that it was somehow an odd time for such a thing, but it was done, and I think often, it did quell the attention to valid criticisms and doubts. This is more my intuition on this one, so take this one with a grain of salt.
9. Accuse all critics of being liars or slanders – This one is based upon nyoron’s comment. It seems that Kelly has essentially called all bloggers people who are incapable of having any valid recollections – we all have “revisionist memories”. Oddly, she doesn’t address what the truth really is. Bloggers like me, are also slanderers. So basically Gracepoint critics all have bad memory and like to slander them because we have nothing better to do with our lives. We seem incapable of telling truths according to her.
[end of update on 1/26/10]
This kind of blame game is old, and I’m surprised that you Gracepoint members don’t call it out in truth for what it is – the sin of Adam and Eve
Genesis 3:
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
When will the Kangs stop blaming and start repenting?
I particularly want to point out this verse to you Gracepoint members who know something’s not right there.
10 He [Adam] answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.
Are you hiding from the Truth because you are afraid?
Ed and Kelly Kang’s Twisted Responses to Truth
by makestraight
(updated 2/7/10)
Pastor Ed likes to generally preach on the topic of truth. What I have come to see of him however, is that he likes truth as long as it’s convenient to Gracepoint. When truths arise that reveal the full, actual truth, he and his wife Kelly take to the following tactics in order to dismiss them.
When blogs like this one arise, which tell the “other side” of the story you hear about Gracepoint [and its stories of spiritual abuse and legalism] they take to measures of psychological manipulation and rhetoric. Here are the basic methods that they use.
I think this post could have the potential of being very long, so I’ll just write short summaries for each. I’ll try to expand them later if I get around to it. [Please feel free to add to this in your comments, you GP leavers who experienced similar things]
1. Play Ignorant – Ed particularly does this well, and he has that straight lawyers face when he says it. But as recounted by several commenters, if you raise a valid criticism of Gracepoint, he will often say something along the lines of “I didn’t know, had I known, I would have changed it, but you should have told me earlier.” But even after you tell him at the time, nothing will actually change. This has apparently been going on for years, and I’m glad that with the power of the web, we can expose this once and for all.
2. Blame - Ed and Kelly also often blame you as the reason. Instead of acknowledging the problems about their own church, they will say it’s your fault. You might be too petty, too critical, too weird, too sensitive, too abnormal according to them. Their accusations are very powerful, since you have been groomed to trust them, and now they call you these names, and you start believing them. The reality is that they are very defensive, proud people who refuse to change the legalistic, dictatorial leadership they have over the church, because they have come to fall in love their positions of power and control. The irony of all of this is that Kelly herself is the most critical person I’ve known. She might not like the way the band is standing, and the way the women are dressed during weddings, and the font on some print out someone made. To beat the dead horse, she complained that no one said “happy birthday” to her on her birthday. Do you Gracepoint members not see the hypocrisy in this?
Sometimes, Ed will combine this with his method of playing ignorant. ”You should have told me earlier” and the implication is that it’s your fault for having remained silent.
This is the primary way in which they invalidate Gracepoint leavers – they assert that there was something particularly wrong with them, and nothing with the church. They are too bitter, ungrateful, etc etc. They might add that “well, we’ve made mistakes” and gloss over their own sins, but infer that NOTHING was worth leaving about.
3. Minimize – Ed and Kelly will also minimize an issue if it’s something that reflects badly upon them. They will say, “it’s not a big deal” and then again blame you for being overly critical and petty. The issue could be about a biblical issue, but they will somehow turn it into it being about you and your problem.
4. Individualize – They tend to also individualize the problem. ”It’s just YOU, no one else has this problem.” But as 1vois has pointed out in a recent comment, you realize only AFTER leaving and meeting some others that others were told the same thing. Again, because of the power of the web, such lies told by the Kangs to individuals in private to control and manipulate people, can be exposed and made to be out in the open.
5. Claim Misunderstanding – Ed and Kelly Kang also like to twist the truth if it exposes them and their sins by stating it was all a misunderstanding. They mean well, they LOVE everyone, and they are basically godly, but hey, there are “petty, weird, ungrateful” people out there who just don’t “get it”. So they try to get off blameless by stating that it’s really not their fault, and the blame again goes toward the other party. There’s a theme here of blame, isn’t there?
6. Intimidate - They will often intimidate people into believing only THEIR side of the story. One of the things that used to bother me, and one commenter referred to once, is that they will refer “anonymously” to people who have raised disagreements or criticisms. They might be leavers, or they might be current members sitting there in that same meeting. I say “anonymously” because they provide enough detail so that most of the members know exactly who is being referred to. It’s especially intimidating when that person being referred to is you, and your “peers” know also. They will proceed to read some email or summarize what happened, and then give their opinion in a very authoritarian way about how wrong it is. Because of the atmosphere, people will agree. They will dare not raise any disagreements in the middle of such a meeting or agree with the “dissenter” lest they look like black sheep. After all, there’s the staff title and the potential of their own marriage they have to worry about, which I’ve written about already.
Or they might call you in for a meeting in their office. They will have your immediate leader, your leader’s leader, and even perhaps Ed and Kelly themselves in the meeting. They will interrogate you with details about what happened, and then proceed to use their lawyer-like, prosecution-style method of challenging your memories. Of course, all of the leaders are on one team, and you are on the other. You are intimidated, outnumbered, and you most likely will stutter and not get your facts all straight. In the end you will most likely come out confused and blame yourself. They justify this kind of meeting as a meeting necessary to gather all parts of the truth, but they are all biased to be pro-Gracepoint and its structure. None of the lower staff will dare speak up to be on your side. This doesn’t happen to all people, but people whom they feel are dissenting too much, or have some general problem with Gracepoint Berkeley.
[Based on some comments, and some additional thoughts, here are some more ways that the Kangs respond in twisted ways to truth.]
7. Sweep it under the rug/drown it – Ever since these blogs exposing the truth about the Kangs and Gracepoint have come out, they have attempted to obviously flood the web with as many Gracepoint urls as possible, and have signed up Kelly and Ed to random social network sites. I already blogged about that one. They did this without even trying to directly address any actual criticisms. Often, they try to make blanket statements stating that the the criticisms are all lies without any logical reasoning. Rather, they resort to name calling and one-dimensional labeling of the critics.
8. Divert attention away from it – I can’t say for 100% reason if this is true, but this is more my opinion. When doubts or criticisms about Gracepoint and the Kangs build, I’ve seen some sudden large activity like some presentation or group reorganization done. I remember feeling that it was somehow an odd time for such a thing, but it was done, and I think often, it did quell the attention to valid criticisms and doubts. This is more my intuition on this one, so take this one with a grain of salt.
9. Accuse all critics of being liars or slanders – This one is based upon nyoron’s comment. It seems that Kelly has essentially called all bloggers people who are incapable of having any valid recollections – we all have “revisionist memories”. Oddly, she doesn’t address what the truth really is. Bloggers like me, are also slanderers. So basically Gracepoint critics all have bad memory and like to slander them because we have nothing better to do with our lives. We seem incapable of telling truths according to her.
[end of update on 1/26/10]
This kind of blame game is old, and I’m surprised that you Gracepoint members don’t call it out in truth for what it is – the sin of Adam and Eve
Genesis 3:
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
When will the Kangs stop blaming and start repenting?
I particularly want to point out this verse to you Gracepoint members who know something’s not right there.
10 He [Adam] answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.
Are you hiding from the Truth because you are afraid?
What “Dying to Yourself” is Not
Feb 2, 2010 7:03 PM
What “Dying to Yourself” is Not
by makestraight
[updated 10:45pm, 2/2/2010]
Luke 9:23 is one of Gracepoint’s favorite verses to preach on. I think it’s a great verse.
Luke 9
23Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
However, this verse is misused and twisted at Gracepoint to mainly influence members to subject themselves to their leaders, rather than really following Jesus. Instead of Jesus, the “me” reference becomes an allusion to Gracepoint or Gracepoint leaders.
Often, what may be preached is “you need to die to yourself”.
This “dying to the self” can then be manipulated into ways not meant by the verse. One clear manner in which this is preached is to try to get members to go along with Gracepoint, even when a member might have valid suspicions and doubts based on what is biblical and what is not.
Instead, such a “doubter” is framed as someone who cannot “surrender” and “die to oneself”, and is an untrusting sinner, who is “missing out” on following Jesus.
This is very twisted and manipulative. Often, Pastor Ed or Kelly Kang will present any doubts people have as “grievances” or “personal hurts” when they are not. People might have valid doubts based on biblical basis but they are quickly framed as people who cannot “die to themselves” or have “petty concerns when there is so much to do for God”.
What’s tragic about all of this is that there are so many people at Gracepoint who in fear want to avoid conflict, be loyal and keep the herd mentality. It doesn’t matter if it’s a biblical issue or not. Disagreement is seen as unspiritual, even if it’s based upon the very word of God!
Gracepoint leaders might even play the “hurt” card and state that they are hurt that you don’t trust them, “after all they’ve done for you”.
But the truth is that God never intended for us to turn off our brains. It says in Romans and in Matthew:
Romans 12
2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Matthew 10
16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Paul says “Be tranformed by the RENEWING of your MIND”, NOT “by TURNING OFF your MIND”.
He also says then you will be able to TEST and APPROVE what God’s will is. You should use your MIND to test and approve God’s will for you.
Jesus also states that we should be SHREWD as snakes, and as innocent as doves!
Furthermore, Jesus says in Mark 12:29-31:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
The Bible does NOT a paint a picture of a Christ-follower being someone who’s supposed to turn off his mind.
I think the biblical analogy of being “sheep” has been extended too far at times, especially at Gracepoint. Sheep are dumb, don’t know what to do, and always need a shepherd – that shepherd being your leaders of course.
Yes, we need leaders in the church. But SERVANT leaders that teach people how to follow Christ, and not themselves or just their own LOCAL church. A Christian ought to be planted primarily in a local church, but be open to whatever God has in store! Even Paul didn’t stay and settle after one church!
When Jesus was yet a child [12 years old], he was found at the temple listening and asking questions, and even answering among teachers – Luke 2:
46After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 4
Paul was often found debating and using his mind to the fullest to prove that Jesus was the Christ. Apollos the same.
Please don’t turn off your brain. You’re supposed to use it in conjunction with the Bible to test and approve God’s will for you.
Dying to yourself does NOT mean turning off your mind.
What “Dying to Yourself” is Not
by makestraight
[updated 10:45pm, 2/2/2010]
Luke 9:23 is one of Gracepoint’s favorite verses to preach on. I think it’s a great verse.
Luke 9
23Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
However, this verse is misused and twisted at Gracepoint to mainly influence members to subject themselves to their leaders, rather than really following Jesus. Instead of Jesus, the “me” reference becomes an allusion to Gracepoint or Gracepoint leaders.
Often, what may be preached is “you need to die to yourself”.
This “dying to the self” can then be manipulated into ways not meant by the verse. One clear manner in which this is preached is to try to get members to go along with Gracepoint, even when a member might have valid suspicions and doubts based on what is biblical and what is not.
Instead, such a “doubter” is framed as someone who cannot “surrender” and “die to oneself”, and is an untrusting sinner, who is “missing out” on following Jesus.
This is very twisted and manipulative. Often, Pastor Ed or Kelly Kang will present any doubts people have as “grievances” or “personal hurts” when they are not. People might have valid doubts based on biblical basis but they are quickly framed as people who cannot “die to themselves” or have “petty concerns when there is so much to do for God”.
What’s tragic about all of this is that there are so many people at Gracepoint who in fear want to avoid conflict, be loyal and keep the herd mentality. It doesn’t matter if it’s a biblical issue or not. Disagreement is seen as unspiritual, even if it’s based upon the very word of God!
Gracepoint leaders might even play the “hurt” card and state that they are hurt that you don’t trust them, “after all they’ve done for you”.
But the truth is that God never intended for us to turn off our brains. It says in Romans and in Matthew:
Romans 12
2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Matthew 10
16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Paul says “Be tranformed by the RENEWING of your MIND”, NOT “by TURNING OFF your MIND”.
He also says then you will be able to TEST and APPROVE what God’s will is. You should use your MIND to test and approve God’s will for you.
Jesus also states that we should be SHREWD as snakes, and as innocent as doves!
Furthermore, Jesus says in Mark 12:29-31:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
The Bible does NOT a paint a picture of a Christ-follower being someone who’s supposed to turn off his mind.
I think the biblical analogy of being “sheep” has been extended too far at times, especially at Gracepoint. Sheep are dumb, don’t know what to do, and always need a shepherd – that shepherd being your leaders of course.
Yes, we need leaders in the church. But SERVANT leaders that teach people how to follow Christ, and not themselves or just their own LOCAL church. A Christian ought to be planted primarily in a local church, but be open to whatever God has in store! Even Paul didn’t stay and settle after one church!
When Jesus was yet a child [12 years old], he was found at the temple listening and asking questions, and even answering among teachers – Luke 2:
46After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 4
Paul was often found debating and using his mind to the fullest to prove that Jesus was the Christ. Apollos the same.
Please don’t turn off your brain. You’re supposed to use it in conjunction with the Bible to test and approve God’s will for you.
Dying to yourself does NOT mean turning off your mind.
Truth Versus What Works
Truth Versus What Works
Feb 6, 2010 1:53 PM
by makestraight
I’m not sure if Gracepoint is still in touch with JP Moreland, but I like him a lot. He likes to use good analogies to get his point across about why Truth matters, and how Christianity is based upon Truth.
This site is based on one of Moreland’s lectures, and provides us Moreland’s illustration of a person named One Mug.
Here’s a passage:
Just because something works does not mean that it is true. Dr. Mooreland told a story of a man that he called, One Mug. One Mug was a dunce, but those around him treated him as though he was a genius. They tricked him into thinking that he was very smart all the way through high school and college. One Mug thought that everyone liked him and that he was very smart whereas the truth was that he was still a dunce. One Mug’s belief of himself worked for him, but it was not true.
There is a difference between whether a belief works and whether it is true. Therefore, it is important to seek the truth of a matter even if the truth doesn’t feel good. We tend to only want to believe something if it works for us and that is the very thing that could get us into trouble. Sometimes the truth is something that we don’t want to hear, but it is the very thing that we should deal with.
As Christians, we should all value and seek truth. I am trying to reveal the truth about Gracepoint Berkeley’s unbiblical and harmful practices. But I know that most Gracepoint members are more interested in “going with the flow” and refraining from “rocking the boat”. After all, many people seem happy and people do seem to get saved. Why change it if it’s working? Why “mess it all up” with unpleasant truths? Gracepoint’s structure seems to just “work”.
But I ask you to adhere to JP Moreland’s very straightforward logic. You have to value truth over what “works”.
Consider this video segment from the Matrix:
Popout
Cypher was tired of the truth. The truth meant he would eat glop for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday. The truth meant that he didn’t have the pleasures of being inside the Matrix. As a matter of fact, he believes ignorance to be bliss, as he takes a bite out of an illusory but tasty piece of steak.
I ask you Gracepoint members if you are deliberately denying truth for what works. I think many of you are aware of the unbiblical foundation of Gracepoint Berkeley’s culture, but you don’t want to rock the boat, and it works for you. If you “go along” you can do good works together, acquire a staff title, you can be setup in being married, and you can feel overall fulfilled. Ultimately, you won’t be lonely.
But I have news for you. You are not living out the gospel, but religion.
You are also isolating truth to what only impacts you – it’s egocentric. There are people who have been harmed by spiritually abusive acts of Ed, Kelly Kang, and other leaders below them. How do you resolve that? Do you even try to? Or do you just put your head down and look only at your own immediate life and dismiss the truths of what’s happened to other people as irrelevant, since your own life feels so fulfilling?
I ask you not to merely agree with me because I am asking you to, but I genuinely ask you to seek truth. I claim that the truth is that Pastor Ed and Kelly Kang have sins of spiritual abuse and manipulation to repent of, and that Gracepoint Berkeley’s structure is not biblical, and is abusive.
Please test that claim to see if it’s truth, and don’t merely accept what seems to “work” for you personally.
Feb 6, 2010 1:53 PM
by makestraight
I’m not sure if Gracepoint is still in touch with JP Moreland, but I like him a lot. He likes to use good analogies to get his point across about why Truth matters, and how Christianity is based upon Truth.
This site is based on one of Moreland’s lectures, and provides us Moreland’s illustration of a person named One Mug.
Here’s a passage:
Just because something works does not mean that it is true. Dr. Mooreland told a story of a man that he called, One Mug. One Mug was a dunce, but those around him treated him as though he was a genius. They tricked him into thinking that he was very smart all the way through high school and college. One Mug thought that everyone liked him and that he was very smart whereas the truth was that he was still a dunce. One Mug’s belief of himself worked for him, but it was not true.
There is a difference between whether a belief works and whether it is true. Therefore, it is important to seek the truth of a matter even if the truth doesn’t feel good. We tend to only want to believe something if it works for us and that is the very thing that could get us into trouble. Sometimes the truth is something that we don’t want to hear, but it is the very thing that we should deal with.
As Christians, we should all value and seek truth. I am trying to reveal the truth about Gracepoint Berkeley’s unbiblical and harmful practices. But I know that most Gracepoint members are more interested in “going with the flow” and refraining from “rocking the boat”. After all, many people seem happy and people do seem to get saved. Why change it if it’s working? Why “mess it all up” with unpleasant truths? Gracepoint’s structure seems to just “work”.
But I ask you to adhere to JP Moreland’s very straightforward logic. You have to value truth over what “works”.
Consider this video segment from the Matrix:
Popout
Cypher was tired of the truth. The truth meant he would eat glop for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday. The truth meant that he didn’t have the pleasures of being inside the Matrix. As a matter of fact, he believes ignorance to be bliss, as he takes a bite out of an illusory but tasty piece of steak.
I ask you Gracepoint members if you are deliberately denying truth for what works. I think many of you are aware of the unbiblical foundation of Gracepoint Berkeley’s culture, but you don’t want to rock the boat, and it works for you. If you “go along” you can do good works together, acquire a staff title, you can be setup in being married, and you can feel overall fulfilled. Ultimately, you won’t be lonely.
But I have news for you. You are not living out the gospel, but religion.
You are also isolating truth to what only impacts you – it’s egocentric. There are people who have been harmed by spiritually abusive acts of Ed, Kelly Kang, and other leaders below them. How do you resolve that? Do you even try to? Or do you just put your head down and look only at your own immediate life and dismiss the truths of what’s happened to other people as irrelevant, since your own life feels so fulfilling?
I ask you not to merely agree with me because I am asking you to, but I genuinely ask you to seek truth. I claim that the truth is that Pastor Ed and Kelly Kang have sins of spiritual abuse and manipulation to repent of, and that Gracepoint Berkeley’s structure is not biblical, and is abusive.
Please test that claim to see if it’s truth, and don’t merely accept what seems to “work” for you personally.
Responsibility for One’s Sins – From Kelly Herself
Feb 9, 2010 12:38 PM
Responsibility for One’s Sins – From Kelly Herself
by makestraight
I posted this as a comment, but I think it’s worthy of a separate post.
An excerpt from a recent post by Kelly in her blog:
I think it’s hard for people who are in fear to take responsibility for their sins. Somehow, it’s hard to feel that you did wrong since after all, you were just afraid.
“I lied because I was afraid that you would yell at me.”
“I cheated on the test because I was afraid of jeopardizing my GPA and my future.”
“I could not be honest about my affairs because I was afraid of hurting you.”
“I could not follow Jesus because I feared the repercussion of following Jesus in terms of what parents would say.”
“I could not wholeheartedly follow Jesus because I feared poverty and suffering.”
How can such a person come to a genuine repentance?
The sense of hypocrisy and blindness I see in reading Kelly teach this is overwhelming and confounding.
Kelly herself is the one refusing to repent over her sins of spiritual abuse, and she is teaching others about how they have barriers to repentance?
Perhaps these are some of what goes on in Kelly’s mind:
“It’s not my fault, it was Becky who did it all”
“I am too afraid to admit that I hurt so many people”
“Those people that say they are hurt, it’s all their fault. They are too petty, too sensitive, and too secular”
“If I confess my sins about spiritually abusing others, then my husband and I will lose our roles as the top leaders of Gracepoint Berkeley.”
“If I confess my sins, I am afraid I am confessing I have been a failure.”
Kelly, please, whatever your reasons may be, please repent. God is gracious and forgiving. And please, confess to those that you’ve hurt and ask for their forgiveness.
Maybe you can blog about that.
Psalm 103
Of David.
1 Praise the LORD, O my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name.2 Praise the LORD, O my soul,
and forget not all his benefits-
3 who forgives all your sins
and heals all your diseases,
4 who redeems your life from the pit
and crowns you with love and compassion,
5 who satisfies your desires with good things
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
6 The LORD works righteousness
and justice for all the oppressed.
7 He made known his ways to Moses,
his deeds to the people of Israel:
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;
14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are like grass,
he flourishes like a flower of the field;
16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,
and its place remembers it no more.
17 But from everlasting to everlasting
the LORD’s love is with those who fear him,
and his righteousness with their children’s children-
18 with those who keep his covenant
and remember to obey his precepts.
19 The LORD has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all.
20 Praise the LORD, you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his bidding,
who obey his word.
21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts,
you his servants who do his will.
22 Praise the LORD, all his works
everywhere in his dominion.
Praise the LORD, O my soul.
Responsibility for One’s Sins – From Kelly Herself
by makestraight
I posted this as a comment, but I think it’s worthy of a separate post.
An excerpt from a recent post by Kelly in her blog:
I think it’s hard for people who are in fear to take responsibility for their sins. Somehow, it’s hard to feel that you did wrong since after all, you were just afraid.
“I lied because I was afraid that you would yell at me.”
“I cheated on the test because I was afraid of jeopardizing my GPA and my future.”
“I could not be honest about my affairs because I was afraid of hurting you.”
“I could not follow Jesus because I feared the repercussion of following Jesus in terms of what parents would say.”
“I could not wholeheartedly follow Jesus because I feared poverty and suffering.”
How can such a person come to a genuine repentance?
The sense of hypocrisy and blindness I see in reading Kelly teach this is overwhelming and confounding.
Kelly herself is the one refusing to repent over her sins of spiritual abuse, and she is teaching others about how they have barriers to repentance?
Perhaps these are some of what goes on in Kelly’s mind:
“It’s not my fault, it was Becky who did it all”
“I am too afraid to admit that I hurt so many people”
“Those people that say they are hurt, it’s all their fault. They are too petty, too sensitive, and too secular”
“If I confess my sins about spiritually abusing others, then my husband and I will lose our roles as the top leaders of Gracepoint Berkeley.”
“If I confess my sins, I am afraid I am confessing I have been a failure.”
Kelly, please, whatever your reasons may be, please repent. God is gracious and forgiving. And please, confess to those that you’ve hurt and ask for their forgiveness.
Maybe you can blog about that.
Psalm 103
Of David.
1 Praise the LORD, O my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name.2 Praise the LORD, O my soul,
and forget not all his benefits-
3 who forgives all your sins
and heals all your diseases,
4 who redeems your life from the pit
and crowns you with love and compassion,
5 who satisfies your desires with good things
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
6 The LORD works righteousness
and justice for all the oppressed.
7 He made known his ways to Moses,
his deeds to the people of Israel:
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;
14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are like grass,
he flourishes like a flower of the field;
16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,
and its place remembers it no more.
17 But from everlasting to everlasting
the LORD’s love is with those who fear him,
and his righteousness with their children’s children-
18 with those who keep his covenant
and remember to obey his precepts.
19 The LORD has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all.
20 Praise the LORD, you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his bidding,
who obey his word.
21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts,
you his servants who do his will.
22 Praise the LORD, all his works
everywhere in his dominion.
Praise the LORD, O my soul.
False Prophet?
Feb 11, 2010 4:27 PM
False Prophet?
by makestraight
Recently, nyoron posted a comment that conveying what Kelly thought about this blog and others like it. Here’s what she stated:
Kelly-SMN had some rather unpleasant things to say about these blogs. In her exact words, you “received a lot of love while causing great heartaches.” You have “revisionist memories” and you have “slandered and demonized” Gracepoint with your “groundless slander.” She cited Matthew 24:9-13:
9″Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
She compared these blogs to the the deceivers who hate, betray, and persecute the Christians, and Gracepoint to those who stand firm and are saved in the end.
This characteristic is actually very revealing and indicative of a spiritually abusive environment. Just read any of the Helpful Articles links on the right. This one is a good one to start with.
But since she implied that I am a “false prophet,” with reference to the verses in Matthew, I wanted to explore what a “false prophet” really is.
I don’t we need to delve into too much Scripture to define it. I’d say it’s safe to say that a “false prophet” is anyone that teaches people what is not true according to God. He or she misrepresents God himself and His message.
Jeremiah 28 details a story of a false prophet. He sounded like he was from God, but he actually was not, and he faced a dire consequence – the judgment of death from God himself:
The False Prophet Hananiah
1 In the fifth month of that same year, the fourth year, early in the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, the prophet Hananiah son of Azzur, who was from Gibeon, said to me in the house of the LORD in the presence of the priests and all the people: 2 “This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: ‘I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon. 3 Within two years I will bring back to this place all the articles of the LORD’s house that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon removed from here and took to Babylon. 4 I will also bring back to this place Jehoiachin [a] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and all the other exiles from Judah who went to Babylon,’ declares the LORD, ‘for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon.’ “5 Then the prophet Jeremiah replied to the prophet Hananiah before the priests and all the people who were standing in the house of the LORD. 6 He said, “Amen! May the LORD do so! May the LORD fulfill the words you have prophesied by bringing the articles of the LORD’s house and all the exiles back to this place from Babylon. 7 Nevertheless, listen to what I have to say in your hearing and in the hearing of all the people: 8 From early times the prophets who preceded you and me have prophesied war, disaster and plague against many countries and great kingdoms. 9 But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the LORD only if his prediction comes true.”
10 Then the prophet Hananiah took the yoke off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah and broke it, 11 and he said before all the people, “This is what the LORD says: ‘In the same way will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon off the neck of all the nations within two years.’ ” At this, the prophet Jeremiah went on his way.
12 Shortly after the prophet Hananiah had broken the yoke off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 13 “Go and tell Hananiah, ‘This is what the LORD says: You have broken a wooden yoke, but in its place you will get a yoke of iron. 14 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: I will put an iron yoke on the necks of all these nations to make them serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and they will serve him. I will even give him control over the wild animals.’ “
15 Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, “Listen, Hananiah! The LORD has not sent you, yet you have persuaded this nation to trust in lies. 16 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: ‘I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This very year you are going to die, because you have preached rebellion against the LORD.’ “
17 In the seventh month of that same year, Hananiah the prophet died.
We can’t tell from the passage what actually motivated Hananiah to come up with his own prophecy not from the Lord, but the fact is, what he spoke did not come from God. It sounded good, but it was not from God.
Now test what I have said in my blog, and also test what Ed and Kelly Kang are teaching and carrying out in Gracepoint Berkeley.
Am I speaking anything unbiblical? I have been preaching against legalism and FOR grace (as does Paul in Galatians) and I have spoken true accounts of what sins have been, and are apparently continuing to be committed at that church in spiritual abuse.
I have called for the repentance of the Kangs and the top leaders, and have encouraged for all to read the Word, posed biblical support for my stance, and encouraged Christians to get to know the Holy Spirit.
Now compare to just some of what Kelly Kang, and Ed and their group of leaders have done:
Kelly believes that you should be indebted to each other literally – that you owe each other.
Kelly believes in fear-based relationships, and justified it with a horrible bible verse reference.
They judge and label negatively those that leave Gracpoint Berkeley.
They encouraged their members to pull out loans for their building fund.
Now those are just some of the comprehensive list of unbiblical practices.
You decide and judge for yourself who’s closer to being a false prophet.
False Prophet?
by makestraight
Recently, nyoron posted a comment that conveying what Kelly thought about this blog and others like it. Here’s what she stated:
Kelly-SMN had some rather unpleasant things to say about these blogs. In her exact words, you “received a lot of love while causing great heartaches.” You have “revisionist memories” and you have “slandered and demonized” Gracepoint with your “groundless slander.” She cited Matthew 24:9-13:
9″Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
She compared these blogs to the the deceivers who hate, betray, and persecute the Christians, and Gracepoint to those who stand firm and are saved in the end.
This characteristic is actually very revealing and indicative of a spiritually abusive environment. Just read any of the Helpful Articles links on the right. This one is a good one to start with.
But since she implied that I am a “false prophet,” with reference to the verses in Matthew, I wanted to explore what a “false prophet” really is.
I don’t we need to delve into too much Scripture to define it. I’d say it’s safe to say that a “false prophet” is anyone that teaches people what is not true according to God. He or she misrepresents God himself and His message.
Jeremiah 28 details a story of a false prophet. He sounded like he was from God, but he actually was not, and he faced a dire consequence – the judgment of death from God himself:
The False Prophet Hananiah
1 In the fifth month of that same year, the fourth year, early in the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, the prophet Hananiah son of Azzur, who was from Gibeon, said to me in the house of the LORD in the presence of the priests and all the people: 2 “This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: ‘I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon. 3 Within two years I will bring back to this place all the articles of the LORD’s house that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon removed from here and took to Babylon. 4 I will also bring back to this place Jehoiachin [a] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and all the other exiles from Judah who went to Babylon,’ declares the LORD, ‘for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon.’ “5 Then the prophet Jeremiah replied to the prophet Hananiah before the priests and all the people who were standing in the house of the LORD. 6 He said, “Amen! May the LORD do so! May the LORD fulfill the words you have prophesied by bringing the articles of the LORD’s house and all the exiles back to this place from Babylon. 7 Nevertheless, listen to what I have to say in your hearing and in the hearing of all the people: 8 From early times the prophets who preceded you and me have prophesied war, disaster and plague against many countries and great kingdoms. 9 But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the LORD only if his prediction comes true.”
10 Then the prophet Hananiah took the yoke off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah and broke it, 11 and he said before all the people, “This is what the LORD says: ‘In the same way will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon off the neck of all the nations within two years.’ ” At this, the prophet Jeremiah went on his way.
12 Shortly after the prophet Hananiah had broken the yoke off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 13 “Go and tell Hananiah, ‘This is what the LORD says: You have broken a wooden yoke, but in its place you will get a yoke of iron. 14 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: I will put an iron yoke on the necks of all these nations to make them serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and they will serve him. I will even give him control over the wild animals.’ “
15 Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, “Listen, Hananiah! The LORD has not sent you, yet you have persuaded this nation to trust in lies. 16 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: ‘I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This very year you are going to die, because you have preached rebellion against the LORD.’ “
17 In the seventh month of that same year, Hananiah the prophet died.
We can’t tell from the passage what actually motivated Hananiah to come up with his own prophecy not from the Lord, but the fact is, what he spoke did not come from God. It sounded good, but it was not from God.
Now test what I have said in my blog, and also test what Ed and Kelly Kang are teaching and carrying out in Gracepoint Berkeley.
Am I speaking anything unbiblical? I have been preaching against legalism and FOR grace (as does Paul in Galatians) and I have spoken true accounts of what sins have been, and are apparently continuing to be committed at that church in spiritual abuse.
I have called for the repentance of the Kangs and the top leaders, and have encouraged for all to read the Word, posed biblical support for my stance, and encouraged Christians to get to know the Holy Spirit.
Now compare to just some of what Kelly Kang, and Ed and their group of leaders have done:
Kelly believes that you should be indebted to each other literally – that you owe each other.
Kelly believes in fear-based relationships, and justified it with a horrible bible verse reference.
They judge and label negatively those that leave Gracpoint Berkeley.
They encouraged their members to pull out loans for their building fund.
Now those are just some of the comprehensive list of unbiblical practices.
You decide and judge for yourself who’s closer to being a false prophet.
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